The spread of apples from Kazakhstan

[Duncan Head]

A palate-cleanser after your freeze-dried Viking cod:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/15/geneticists-trace-humble-apples-exotic-lineage-all-the-way-to-the-silk-road
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00336-7

Neither in the Guardian article nor on a quick skim of the original paper can I see anything about chronology, though. Did the apple literally spread along the silk route, or was it centuries or millennia before there really was a silk route?

[Patrick Waterson]

Given the popularity of apples in Greek mythology relating to the pre-Trojan War period, I suspect that what we may have received via the Silk Road would have been some new varieties of apple rather than the apple itself.

[Jim Webster]

Given the popularity of apples in Greek mythology relating to the pre-Trojan War period, I suspect that what we may have received via the Silk Road would have been some new varieties of apple rather than the apple itself.

Interesting, The apple in the Genesis story of the Garden of Eden became an apple only in translation
So what word do the oldest Greek stories use for Apple ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_fruit#Identifications_and_depictions

[Duncan Head]

Looking at the Nature article again, what they're suggesting is that all cultivated apples come from Kazakhstan stock, hybridizing with European and other wild crabapples. So either the Apple of Discord, of the Hesperides, etc, were crabapples, or else the spread out of Kazakhstan was so early that "silk route" references are misleading.

[Swampster]

This paper http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002703 says that sweet apples arrived in the Middle East c 4000 years ago.

[Imperial Dave]

apples are close to my heart.....

in Britain we are more concerned with bittersweets or sharps than sweet or cullinary apples but I havent really looked into the origin of british apples. They are markedly different to most other area in Europe or further afield (Although Normandy has similar apples and therefore cider styles)

[Tim]

Normans AND Cider.

This is my sort of thread!

[Imperial Dave]

Normandy cider is very British in nature and does go back some way in history Strabo makes comments about the apples and cider of the region

[Anton]

Cidre Breton used to be, and maybe still is, served in The French House Soho where the Free French used to meet during WW2.  Good stuff and presumably from an old British recipe.

John James majored on the delights of Cider in his Late Roman novel Not For All The Gold in Ireland.

[Erpingham]

Good stuff and presumably from an old British recipe.

Given the widespread traditions of cider on the continent, I doubt we can can be so sure.  However, certainly good stuff.  My daughter's partner swears by it

[Imperial Dave]

Northern France prefers bittersweet apples and thus more astringent ciders, the rest of europe more softer and sweeter ones

[Patrick Waterson]

Returning to the origin of the cultivated apple, I suspect the influence of the silk road is being overrated.  It is hard to see three goddesses taking a day trip to Mount Ida because of getting excited over a golden crabapple.

More prosaically, would we have to rename Achamaenid bodyguards the golden crabapple bearers?