Questions on 8th-10th century Anglo-Saxons + Vikings (raiders and Danelaw)

[Erpingham]

Anglo-Saxons may have used small handaxes but I don't think there is much evidence either way. 

As to javelins, I'd be a bit sceptical in the sense we wargamers use javelins.  Throwing spears perhaps would be better and not something you had ill-equipped peasants with handfuls of running round skirmishing (IMO).

English and Vikings probably had their archers in, or behind, their shieldwalls for much of the battle but a bit of independent skirmishing as the armies formed up can't be discounted.

[Darthvegeta800]

Anglo-Saxons may have used small handaxes but I don't think there is much evidence either way. 

As to javelins, I'd be a bit sceptical in the sense we wargamers use javelins.  Throwing spears perhaps would be better and not something you had ill-equipped peasants with handfuls of running round skirmishing (IMO).

English and Vikings probably had their archers in, or behind, their shieldwalls for much of the battle but a bit of independent skirmishing as the armies formed up can't be discounted.

Problem with the topic is... the more I read the more contradictory views I develop about these forces.

As for the javelins. I think the author linked it to depictions of soldiers in the battleline holding more than one spear or so. He 'speculated' that one was probably the main spear and the others throwing spears.

[Anton]

On axes- there is a reference to axe fighting in Marwanad Cynddylan, an elegy to one of Penda's allies.  It seems to be the Northumbrians who were using them.  Before your period but it's interesting that they were about then and I cannot think why they would go out of fashion.  There is currently no way of knowing what type of axes the Northumbrians were using.

Barry Cunliffe, in his Viking section of Britain Begins, takes the view that outside of the professional full time warriors the English were too unused to warfare to cope with the onset of the Vikings.

[Darthvegeta800]

On axes- there is a reference to axe fighting in Marwanad Cynddylan, an elegy to one of Penda's allies.  It seems to be the Northumbrians who were using them.  Before your period but it's interesting that they were about then and I cannot think why they would go out of fashion.  There is currently no way of knowing what type of axes the Northumbrians were using.

Barry Cunliffe, in his Viking section of Britain Begins, takes the view that outside of the professional full time warriors the English were too unused to warfare to cope with the onset of the Vikings.

I get the impression there are 2 diammetrically opposite views on the matter.
One seems to depict the English as a very generic levy unmartial force while they other seems to interprete the armies as the equal of the vikings on average.
The fun and frustration about this period seems to be... how little is known. And how much is conjecture.

[Anton]

Yes, its often the way of it.  I think Peter Heather is worth reading on the subject of the Great Army and its foes.

[Darthvegeta800]

Yes, its often the way of it.  I think Peter Heather is worth reading on the subject of the Great Army and its foes.

Indeed. On the viking side of things I already have tons of literature. It's the anglosaxon side of things I'm researching more nowadays. As I neglected the centuries between 'pseudo Arthur' and what is essentially 'post Alfred The Great'.
Wargame wise it interests me for the 15mm as it seems rather fun making a large army in the period that can be split up and used in a campaign context. With here and there 'Sea Raiders' (early era Vikings) popping up to mess things up for bickering local warlords and kings.

[Imperial Dave]

I've got a lot of his books and find him a good read

[Andreas Johansson]

As to javelins, I'd be a bit sceptical in the sense we wargamers use javelins.  Throwing spears perhaps would be better and not something you had ill-equipped peasants with handfuls of running round skirmishing (IMO).

Archaeologists tend to label long points as spears and shorter ones as javelins, but the Old Norse sources don't seem to make much of a distinction: cf the King's Mirror exerpt Duncan posted earlier in the thread. Evidently many weapons were considered suitable for both throwing and thrusting.

[Erpingham]

An opportunity to quote some of the Maldon poem (OK, its a couple of hundred years later but same sides)

Then they let fly from their hands spears file-hardened,
the spears grimly ground down, bows were busy—
shields were peppered with points. (106-10)

Here we have the exchange of throwing spears before the lines clash.  It seems this is an exchange of missiles shieldwall-to-shieldwall.

Later, in the midst of battle

Then one stern in war waded forth, heaving up his weapon,
sheltered by his shield, stepped up against Byrhtnoth.
The earl went just as resolutely to the churl,
either of them intending evil to the other.
Then the sea-warrior sent a southern spear,
that wounded the lord of warriors.
Byrhtnoth shoved it with his shield, so that the shaft burst,
and that spear-head broke so that it sprang out again.
The fighting-warrior became infuriated; he stabbed with his spear
the proud Viking, who had given him that wound.
Aged was the army-warrior; he let his spear go forth
through the neck of the younger warrior, guided by his hand
so that he reached the life of that sudden attacker. (130-42)

Then he swiftly pierced another Viking,
so that the mail-shirt burst—that one was wounded in the breast
through the ring-locks, the poisonous point
stood at his heart. The earl was the happier,
then he laughed, the mindful man, said thanks to the Measurer
for the day's work which the Lord had given him. (143-8)

Then some Viking warrior let go a spear from his hand,
flying from his fist so that it went too deeply
through the noble thane of Æthelred.
One stood by his side, a young warrior not fully grown,
a boy in the battle, who very bravely
pulled the bloody spear out of the warrior,
the son of Wulfstan, Wulfmær the young,
let go the exceedingly hard spear go back again;
the point travelled in, so that he who had laid his lord
previously onto the earth was wounded sorely. (149-58)

Here we see a mixture of thrusting and throwing with spears.  Byrhtnoth himself only seems to use the spear to thrust, but at least one Viking and young Wulfmaer throw spears.