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The shape of shields

Started by RichT, August 01, 2018, 12:09:58 PM

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Andreas Johansson

Quote from: RichT on August 01, 2018, 01:28:08 PM
Thanks, great examples. If I knew what to call some of these weird shapes (winged square? incurved square?) I would add them to my list...
Acc'd to an unsourced WP article the winged sort, or at least a small variant thereof, is known as a "Hungarian shield".

In German they're apparently Ungarischen Tartschen or Ungarischen Flügeltartschen "Hungarian (Wing) Shields".

(Tartsche isn't the general word for "shield", but I can't readily identify the common denominator between the various types so called: they include free-standing infantry pavises as well as small round bucklers for cavalry. The word is in origin the same as "targe".)
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 88 infantry, 16 cavalry, 0 chariots, 9 other
Finished: 24 infantry, 0 cavalry, 0 chariots, 1 other

Andreas Johansson

Anthony's squarish shield with a lance-rest is also a species of Tartsche by the way.
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 88 infantry, 16 cavalry, 0 chariots, 9 other
Finished: 24 infantry, 0 cavalry, 0 chariots, 1 other

Erpingham

As a piece of visual stimulation on shield types, try this pinterest selection.  Warning - there are a lot.

Plenty of examples of the Bohemian shield, which is one we overlooked.  This is sort of coffin shaped but notable for its hollow central rib or fold, which contains the handle.  Also here is Andreas ' winged hussar shield.

On the subject of medieval shields, this is said by some to be the earliest survivor, belonging to Arnold von Brienz d. 1225



It started off as a short kite or teardrop but was cropped across the top into a more fashionable heater shape.

Erpingham

Quote(Tartsche isn't the general word for "shield", but I can't readily identify the common denominator between the various types so called: they include free-standing infantry pavises as well as small round bucklers for cavalry. The word is in origin the same as "targe".)

We might note in passing "targedrager" is the Flemish for Pavise Bearer, according to the musters of the Flemish crossbow guilds.

The smaller English target (a buckler) is, of course, a dimunitive of targe. 

Andreas Johansson

Quote from: Erpingham on August 01, 2018, 03:30:42 PM
Plenty of examples of the Bohemian shield, which is one we overlooked.  This is sort of coffin shaped but notable for its hollow central rib or fold, which contains the handle.

That appears to be more or less the same thing as what's sometimes known as a "Lithuanian pavise".
QuoteAlso here is Andreas ' winged hussar shield.

FWIW, it's also here called a "Hungarian shield".
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 88 infantry, 16 cavalry, 0 chariots, 9 other
Finished: 24 infantry, 0 cavalry, 0 chariots, 1 other

Erpingham

Here is a form & function query, not entirely shape related.

How does the method of carrying the shield relate to the way it is used?  Does technique flow from form or is the fighting style the arbiter of shield design?

Some examples :

Horizontal grip -  aspis (hand by rim), knightly shield (hand towards rim but arm at angle to horizontal)
Vertical grip - usually long shields - hand can be at bottom (straight arm) or top (bent arm)
Centre grip - held with one hand.  Often bossed, with handle vertical.  Roman scutum has horizontal grip (so similar to vertical grip shields).  Medieval centre grip shields can be two straps held together .  Adarga is like this

It should be possible to ascertain something about the style of fighting from the way of holding the shield.  For example, some are easier to raise over your head than others.



Tim

Shapes - I have seen some square shields in ancient art, possibly Chinese - don't have the references to hand, will try to dig them out. Also Barker in plate 97 of AEIR has a square shield.  Stillman and Tallis have multiple almost square shields in AANE, mostly from Iran.  Plates 76 & 77 have very odd shapes like a 4 pointed star.  Barker has something similar in plate 96.

Tim

Form & Function.  30 odd years ago I read about European knights having weighted top edges/corner specifically to thrust up into the face/chin of an opponent so enabling a strike to the vitals of an opponent while he jerked his head back.  As to do I still have the source 3 house moves later...?

Andreas Johansson

Quote from: Erpingham on August 01, 2018, 05:55:15 PM
Horizontal grip -  aspis (hand by rim), knightly shield (hand towards rim but arm at angle to horizontal)
Vertical grip - usually long shields - hand can be at bottom (straight arm) or top (bent arm)
Centre grip - held with one hand.  Often bossed, with handle vertical.  Roman scutum has horizontal grip (so similar to vertical grip shields).  Medieval centre grip shields can be two straps held together .  Adarga is like this
Illustrations of shields far more commonly show the outer side than the inner, so for many types I'm unsure what type of grip they had. What would be some types using the vertical grip, frex?

(Also, is it really meaningful to speak of a horizontal grip on a round shield like an aspis? The shield presumably doesn't care much at what angle you hold your arm, for all that horizontally may be the intended orientation.)
Lead Mountain 2024
Acquired: 88 infantry, 16 cavalry, 0 chariots, 9 other
Finished: 24 infantry, 0 cavalry, 0 chariots, 1 other

RichT

Could you divide shield holding methods broadly into:

- held (in one hand, whether with a horizontal or vertical handle, and wherever on the shield it is placed (but presumably usually centrally))
- worn (usually strapped to the forearm)

Is there a simple relatinship like:
sword = held
spear = worn
?

Erpingham

Quote from: Andreas Johansson on August 02, 2018, 08:55:02 AM

Illustrations of shields far more commonly show the outer side than the inner, so for many types I'm unsure what type of grip they had. What would be some types using the vertical grip, frex?

It's quite common in medieval Italian shields e.g. these from the Avio frescoes



Quote
(Also, is it really meaningful to speak of a horizontal grip on a round shield like an aspis? The shield presumably doesn't care much at what angle you hold your arm, for all that horizontally may be the intended orientation.)

True, as this chap demonstrates :



Though presumably it had a "natural" ready position?  Hence in the knightly shield, the hand was above the elbow, whereas with the aspis it was level.




PMBardunias

#26
Quote from: RichT on August 01, 2018, 12:09:58 PM
So shields come in all sorts of shapes (and sizes). Off the top of my head:

Round and flat
Round and dished
Oval
Square
Rectangular
Rectangular and curved
Crescent
Figure of eight
Kite
Heater


When it comes to curved or convex shields, there are good physical reasons for doing this.  Any convex or lenticular shield transfers the force of the blow away from the site of the strike in the same fashion that domes on buildings transfer force laterally.

They also gain by presenting a thicker cross section of material in the same manner that tanks started sloping their armor in WW2 (though Christie was ahead of his day). We often see shield that are meant to defend against arrows for example with a cone-shaped cross section. This also makes deflection more likely.

Having the grip deep in a shield moves the center of balance back along the arm, which may explain the shape of the hoplomachus shield.

An additional benefit is that chops coming against a curve, like the sides of a scutum, will encounter a flatter surface rather than a rim to bite into and split. Long ago I wrote some posts on this on my blog: http://hollow-lakedaimon.blogspot.com/2008/02/curved-shield.html and http://hollow-lakedaimon.blogspot.com/2008/02/domed-shield.html

Round shields are handier than any other shape. The symmetry of mass makes them very fast to move in any direction with minimal torque on the wrist. Rounded corners also aid in making descending slashing blows from the left shoulder.  With a square shield the corner gets in the way.  The Viking guys tell me that a benefit is that the round curve matched the curving motion of the sword hand, allowing the sword to be used behind the shield with the same length of blade exposed or hand protected during the move.

Oblong shields cover more of the body. We see such things as shield-aprons on the aspis to try to get the same coverage.  This is not just in the form of direct protection, but also an obscuring of the motion of the legs behind the shield.

Center grip shields can be rested on the ground!  They also can be held further away from the body, which increases the amount of body covered with the same size shield. You can punch much more forcefully with a center grip shield due to a large range of motion. Space between your shield and body can be the difference between life and death when you watch arrows penetrate shields and get stuck somewhere along the shaft.

For the same reason that rectangular shields can interfere with your strikes, they can interfere with those of your foe.

Flat shields are MUCH easier to make. If you know how to move them, you can present a very flat surface to an incoming slash. I don't think I need to explain that the more length of blade that strikes a surface at one time, the less focused the force will be.

Double grip shields usually have two grips flanking the center of the shield- rotella for example. This puts a lot of torque on the elbow holding the shield up because more than half the weight of the shield is to the right of the hinge of the elbow. These are usually not presented directly to the enemy, but angled across the body from the left. When they face a foe directly, it us usually in missile combat. A shield on the arm in the fashion effectively protects the whole left side and is very hard to strike around.

The aspis grip is special, but not unique (Phillipine Taming show it sometimes). By placing the elbow in the center, or just to the right of it, you balance the weight on both sides of your elbow joint. This makes the shield much easier to hold for a long time up in position, and makes vertical rotation very fast.

Crescent shapes, such as peltae, allow the man to look over the shield while throwing.  Other shapes like the kite shield and winged shields seem to be specialized to protect the left leg and left shoulder respectively while mounted.

Figure eight shields are really oval shields that are pinched in from the sides to make them convex shields in order to gain all the advantages written of above.  The notion that they are pinched to strike through the waist section is unlikely when you see how that section projects backward due to the pinching.

Shields with complex curves like the dipylon and many waisted South East Asian shields, may owe their shape ultimately to the shape of stretched hides.  But there are advantages to a waisted shield of this type.  You can attack around the waist and the projections catch incoming strikes.

With all of these shields we should not discount asthetics. It may be no coincidence that Minoans and Mycenaeans and their shields are both shown wasp waisted.

As to the pelta being suited for othismos, all of the ones I have seen would be, but we are told of those that are "not too deep". The problem is that without an offset rim, the force is transferred to your upper chest and thigh over a narrow area. It is possible that there is a thickened section inside the radius of these shields as opposed to projecting outwards as in the aspis, but I cannot be anywhere near as thick. This inner vs outer buttressing is why we have chins and apes do not by the way.

Dangun

Quote from: PMBardunias on August 04, 2018, 07:33:55 AM
Flat shields are MUCH easier to make.

I think this is a very good point.

Ease of manufacture and choice of material will have significant economic implications.
Not the most glamorous aspect of this topic, but nonetheless relevant.

Erpingham

Quote from: Dangun on August 04, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: PMBardunias on August 04, 2018, 07:33:55 AM
Flat shields are MUCH easier to make.

I think this is a very good point.

How much depends on the material.  I don't think it is much harder to make a curved wicker shield than a flat one.  Wood though is a different matter.

Quote
Ease of manufacture and choice of material will have significant economic implications.


It's a complicated mix.  Your materials choice may be constrained by what is available and what technologies you are familiar with. 

PMBardunias

Quote from: Erpingham on August 05, 2018, 09:11:58 AM

How much depends on the material.  I don't think it is much harder to make a curved wicker shield than a flat one.  Wood though is a different matter.


This is true. Since they developed out of basket weaving, curved is probably the ground state.  You can find flat woven shields, but the nature of weaving means that the shields really benefit from a curved shape to keep things solid and stiff. Sorry I overlooked that.  With wood, you either need to steam-bend planks or warp them in some fashion, or carve the shield out of a much thicker pieces of wood. The aspis was a mix of these techniques, seemingly bent planks were then finished by hand or on a lathe.  The bending process is obviously easier when making a composite shield out of thin laminates, but the lamination process is involved.  Much easier to get some lime wood and cut a few planks to a circle, then sew on a raw hide cover. Easier still is to stretch out a hid and add a handle, a common primitive shield type. Some of the most primitive wooden shields are curved because they are carved from one piece of wood.  This means you are starting with wood that is as thick as your shield and handle.  So the shield can easily be curved to that depth. Like carving out a dugout canoe, this takes work.