Author Topic: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports  (Read 496 times)

Dave Knight

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DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« on: May 11, 2020, 04:21:34 PM »
As may have been picked up from other posts I am currently involved in a project to refight many of the British Battles from the second part of the 15th Century concentrating mainly but not exclusively on the Wars of the Roses.

I thought it would be useful to keep my reports of the battles in one place, hence this thread.  The next post is a copy of one from elsewhere on the forum for completeness

Dave Knight

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2020, 04:23:43 PM »
Played Blore Heath twice in the last week on zoom (originally posted 3rd March)

The set up split the Lancanstrains into 3 waves, one of lighter cavalry, one of mounted MAA and one of foot mainly bill.

The Yorkists had a front line of archers behind stakes backed by bill and one unit of foot MAA

To give the Yorkists a chance as they were outnumbered 2 to 1 the Lancastrians had to follow history and attack in 3 separate waves.  Also one of the Lancastrain bill units had the potential to change sides once its battle was engaged.

In the first game I was the Yorkists.  Effective archery saw off the first Lancastrian Battle and most of the 2nd wave but one unit did get in and caused some damage before being routed by the foot men at arms

Once contacted the archers go into melee mode and lose missile capability but half half of my archers were untouched and still shooting as the Lancastrian 3rd line advanced.  On the other flank and emboldened by their success against the cavalry the Yorkists counterattcked lead by the Salisbury and his Men at Arms, took out 3 more Lancastrain units and forced an army rout on the Lancastrians.

For the second game I took the Lancastrians.  Although one of the hobilar units was routed by archery the rest of the first line closed.  They battered through the Yorkist lines, killed Salisbury and won the battle on thier own (2 units of hobilars and one mounted MAA against 4 archers, 2 bill and 1 foot MAA) 

I have had a week of exceptional dice rolling and await the inevitable turning of the wheel of luck

Dave Knight

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 02:31:14 PM »
Last week played Sark twice via zoom using our in development Wars of the Roses rules.

Sark is of course not a Wars of the Roses battle but as our rules promote the melee as the primary battle winning mechanism and minimise the effect of archery we hoped this would work here as on the day the Scots close combat fighters won the day and the English Longbowmen were ineffective.

This was a 3 battle a side game, with Percy and Douglas leading large central commands and the two wings being somewhat smaller.

I took the English in the first game and, although the archery was ineffective, powered theough the centre and destroyed Douglas.  Although the Scots were winning on the wings we called it a draw as the mechanism by which Percy benefitted from defeating Douglas seemed too poweful.  We revised it for the next game

In the second game I took the Scots.  This time the English longbows did a bit more damage and slowed their opponents down across all three battles.  Once again Percy powered in. Our revised mechanism worked better but the flow of the battle and better generalship from my oppoenent resulted in an emphatic English win.

Because chance plays a significant part in the rules I would expect a wide variation in results.  I think the scenario is eminently winnable by Douglas.  After one or two more rule tweaks we are going to play the scenario through again next week.


Dave Knight

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 01:42:16 PM »
Excelent Sark game last night.

My test of a good historical scenario is that it should be designed to allow for an historical result and acheive it about 20 to 30% of the time.  Nothing is predetermined and results will often differ of course.  By result I don't just mean who won but also that the flow of the battle is similar.

Not much is known of Sark other than the Scots closed quickly and the English were caught with their backs to the river an suffered many casualties.

Last night both the English and Scots right wings won convincingly which may or may not reflect the history.  However in the centre Douglas forced Percy back against the river and gave him a sound thrashing which looked very authentic.  It was also n exciting battle as at one stage both armies were very close to their break point.  Percy was wounded and had to withdraw but this inspired his archers to draw their swords and get stuck in with two units defying the odds and defeting the Scottish spear/axe units.  All to no avail however.

A fun game.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 10:06:16 PM by Dave Knight »
  • David Knight

Dave Knight

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 10:29:12 PM »
Two run throughs of St Albans last week, again on zoom.

For the scenario design I tried to follow Boardman as best I could with Clifford and Percy facing off Salisbury and Warwick from the town and Buckingam attempting to block York advancing down St Peter's street.

I am working on 2 alternative scenarios.  In this one Somerset deploys with the King plus bodyguard and 1 supporting unit in the town square.  Normal victory conditions apply but if the Yorkists are able to rout the bodyguard the king is considered captured.

I took the Yorkists in the first game and was able to break the Lancastrians in a firece hand to hand struggle before actually reaching the town square. Narrow Yorkist victory

The second game looked more historic as Warwick's men forced their way into the town square.  However Salisbury was killed at a crucial point and his command faltered allowing the troops facing them to turn and reinforce the Lancastrians in the town to good effect. This time a narrow Lancastrain victory.

The King's bodyguard did not fight in either battle.  We had a mechanism to allow Sir Robert Ogle to infiltrate the Lancstrian lines but it was not triggered.

We will be fighting the battle again another twice with the option of the King not starting in the square but if he does emerge for some of the Yorkists to be unnerved at the idea of fighting against him.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 10:32:38 PM by Dave Knight »
  • David Knight

Dave Knight

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2020, 06:55:09 PM »
Another 2 refights of St Albans via zoom

Both ended up with several units in combat in the town square which were the epitome of confused melee - so confusing that I can't really remember what much of what happened other than I got thrashed both times.

We had a new rule to reflect the potential issue of Yorkists not wanting to bear arms against the king.  Each Yorkist unit entering the square and seeing the king arrayed for battle against them had to take a test and if they were overwhelmed they would simply disperese without fighting.  The first 3 (of 10) units to do so failed and refused to fight.  Once one unit passed no more tests were taken by subsequent ones. The remaining 7 units still pounded the Lancastrians (8 units) into the ground and routed the king's boyguard unit so saving him from his evil councellors.

In the second game Sir Robert Ogle was able to infiltrate a unit through the Lancastrain lines into the square and passed the test to be able to fight in the presence of the king.  Initially the Lancastrians took some casualties and were near to breaking but they made a great comeback, laid Richard of York low and emerged victorious.

This next week will be more generic scenarios to tinker around with the rules which I may not report on here but after that it is on to Castillion :)


DougM

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 07:24:03 AM »
Good stuff Dave, thanks for sharing.
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Dave Knight

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Re: DKs 15th Century Battle Reports
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2020, 12:30:14 PM »
Yet another rerun of St Albans.  We wanted to test a smaller battlefield and one or two tweaks to th erules.

This scenario has great replay value.

Different looking game again.  This time I sent Warwick in, his troops got bounced and the following up Lancastrians routed them very quickly winning the battle.  Salisbury and York did not get into the action at all.

I had one oportunity to infiltrate Ogle but failed.  The King looked horribly exposed in the town square but no Yorkists got anywhere near him.