Wrexham Roman villa uncovered by metal detectorists

[Imperial Dave]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54919775

another good find...

[DBS]

Thanks as ever.  I find it odd that the archaeologists seem surprised to find a villa - the stuff about either military dependency or rustic Celtic huts does not really sit with an area that, after all, boasted the town of Wroxeter not that far away.  Viroconium presumably had a curia, and the leading citizens who sat on it would also quite likely have had estates; if they were not rich, they would not be on the curia, and land equals money.  Perhaps the archaeologists have fallen for the classic mistake of absence of evidence equalling evidence of absence?

[Jim Webster]

Perhaps the archaeologists have fallen for the classic mistake of absence of evidence equalling evidence of absence?

That does seem to have been an issue which dogged British archaeology for some time. The north was a 'military zone' with limited civil settlement until they started finding civilian settlements (from memory because of rescue archaeology down when they upgraded the M1 and A1M

[Imperial Dave]

quite reasonable in my eyes to find a villa in the area and its not THAT far North...

[Jim Webster]

quite reasonable in my eyes to find a villa in the area and its not THAT far North...

We're back into 'relative geography' again. For some Watford is the edge of the outer darkness 

Whilst others maintain that there are no signs of civilised life south of the Trent 

[Imperial Dave]

true lol

we should look more at regionality not just Norf/Sarf divides especially in the EMA

[Erpingham]

Relative geography is wonderfully entertaining, and confusing.  For example, is the saying that civilisation ends at Watford or Watford Gap?  For those of us originating between the two, this was a vital question  

One anecdote of many - a student conversation. 
Mike (from Southampton) : I'd only been to the North once before I came to Bradford
Another : Oh, where did you go?
Mike : Oxford

[DBS]

we should look more at regionality not just Norf/Sarf divides especially in the EMA

Have you ever read William Kapelle's Norman Conquest of the North?  Particularly interesting is the complete lack of interest the Normans initially had for the north-west; something like three decades before you start seeing any real presence.  He notes that the Normans who did eventually take land in Cumbria came from the least advantageous area of Normandy, and suggests it may be that only they were prepared to do without good quality wheat bread.

[Imperial Dave]

Hi David, no I havent read that one. I'll look it up thanks.

[Jim Webster]

we should look more at regionality not just Norf/Sarf divides especially in the EMA

Have you ever read William Kapelle's Norman Conquest of the North?  Particularly interesting is the complete lack of interest the Normans initially had for the north-west; something like three decades before you start seeing any real presence.  He notes that the Normans who did eventually take land in Cumbria came from the least advantageous area of Normandy, and suggests it may be that only they were prepared to do without good quality wheat bread.

Our local 'Norman' was 'Michael de Fleming' which tells you all you need to know about him. He built a mott and bailey castle nicely placed on the coast near Aldingham so the flames as it burned down would warn the Normans on the Lancashire coast that something was up.
His family then went on to build Gleaston Castle, a castle so jerry built that it was falling down even before it was completed.

[Imperial Dave]

we should look more at regionality not just Norf/Sarf divides especially in the EMA

Have you ever read William Kapelle's Norman Conquest of the North?  Particularly interesting is the complete lack of interest the Normans initially had for the north-west; something like three decades before you start seeing any real presence.  He notes that the Normans who did eventually take land in Cumbria came from the least advantageous area of Normandy, and suggests it may be that only they were prepared to do without good quality wheat bread.

Our local 'Norman' was 'Michael de Fleming' which tells you all you need to know about him. He built a mott and bailey castle nicely placed on the coast near Aldingham so the flames as it burned down would warn the Normans on the Lancashire coast that something was up.
His family then went on to build Gleaston Castle, a castle so jerry built that it was falling down even before it was completed.

nice representation shot Jim

[Erpingham]

Hi David, no I havent read that one. I'll look it up thanks.

It's a good corrective for the idea that 1066 was the be all and end all of the Norman conquest.  Down the years, its been the inspiration for many encounters between my Viking and Norman armies in an alternative 1069.

[Imperial Dave]

good enough for me....its on the book list

[Jim Webster]

we should look more at regionality not just Norf/Sarf divides especially in the EMA

Have you ever read William Kapelle's Norman Conquest of the North?  Particularly interesting is the complete lack of interest the Normans initially had for the north-west; something like three decades before you start seeing any real presence.  He notes that the Normans who did eventually take land in Cumbria came from the least advantageous area of Normandy, and suggests it may be that only they were prepared to do without good quality wheat bread.

Our local 'Norman' was 'Michael de Fleming' which tells you all you need to know about him. He built a mott and bailey castle nicely placed on the coast near Aldingham so the flames as it burned down would warn the Normans on the Lancashire coast that something was up.
His family then went on to build Gleaston Castle, a castle so jerry built that it was falling down even before it was completed.

nice representation shot Jim

Just a little something I found on google images