Modeling Morat

[Chris]

I went through a few title ideas . . . MULLING OVER MURTEN, CHANCES FOR CHARLES, MODELS OF MORAT, etc.

This is one of those rare instances wherein I don't present a battle narrative or narratives if more than one set of rules is used.

After looking over the various Forums, this seemed the best place to announce my latest effort and provide the link to my blog.

For those interested in reading about approaches to Murten (or Morat), please visit: https://nopaintingrequired.blogspot.com/

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Chris

[Erpingham]

Interesting reading Chris.

Can I recommend the following paper by Richard Vaughan?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265275204_500_Years_after_the_Great_Battles/fulltext/54882f220cf2ef34478f3607/500-Years-after-the-Great-Battles.pdf

This does give you more info on the pay parade among other things.

There is an account of the battle in Douglas Smith and DeVries The Artillery of the Dukes of Burgundy, if you can lay hands (physical or electronic) on it.  He quotes Panigarola's eye witness account quite extensively.

Your comment on the rearguard of the Swiss army I think fits most people's uncertainty.  It may be mentioned but it doesn't seem to do anything - perhaps it didn't need to.

[Jon Freitag]

Fascinating look at the battle, Chris.  Thank you.

[Erpingham]

Chris, you might find the map in the image sequence on this advert useful.  If nothing else, it shows the rearguard swinging round the left of the Grunhag then heading down to the lake edge to cut off fugitives.

https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/schlacht-bei-murten-mit-zinnsoldaten-1077506544/

David Nicolles version in European Medieval Tactics has the rearguard moving out to the left to confront the Burgundian cavalry. 

Grosjean's reconstruction of the Swiss formation puts the rearguard on the left rear of the main battle, giving the classic Swiss echelon attack (not that it actually seems to have been that characteristic of Swiss tactics)

[Chris]

Gents,
Thanks for taking the time to read and remark upon.

Anthony, thanks for the suggestions on further source materials and maps. As if additional evidence was needed of my admittedly amateur (i.e., student) status when it comes to topics like these. On the plus side, the impetus for a tabletop treatment is growing . . . Now I just have to find the time and build the "armies" and then decide on what rules to use.

Cheers,
Chris

[Erpingham]

Anthony, thanks for the suggestions on further source materials and maps. As if additional evidence was needed of my admittedly amateur (i.e., student) status when it comes to topics like these.

It's a battle that has interested me for a while, so I could find some bits and pieces and was happy to search for more.  This exercise has helped me to firm up what I understand of the secondary sources.

It is interesting to envisage Grosjean's Swiss formation impacting with his Burgundian one

 

There is an immediate problem to my mind - the Swiss cavalry position makes no sense.  It's crying out to be on the left of the main battle, facing its Burgundian opposite numbers and screening the main battle from cavalry interference.  The only way I can reconcile it is if the van is well in advance of the main battle and it is screening their left, but even then, surely it moved left to screen the main battle as it came up?  Incidentally, you also get a view as to why the Swiss come on in echelon - their left is in the air, so they are holding their reserve back on that side.

If you look at the Grunhag defence force, you need to be aware of the standard deployment of the Burgundian army for this campaign, which we have preserved from a review in May 1476



So, what we have is a single line from that, with the left flank cavalry replaced by artillery.  Whether that deployment would have been used to defend a field fortification seems a bit speculative.

[gavindbm]

Can I recommend the following paper by Richard Vaughan?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265275204_500_Years_after_the_Great_Battles/fulltext/54882f220cf2ef34478f3607/500-Years-after-the-Great-Battles.pdf

This does give you more info on the pay parade among other things.

Very interesting...particularly details on size of army based on pay records.  Send me scurrying off to my copy of Richard Vaughan's book on Valois Burgundy to re-read the bit on Murten.

It would make a fascinating "what-if", if the Burgundians had been in position when attacked.

Otherwise there could be an interesting delaying action / make as organised a retreat as possible game.  Possibly with the Swiss under umpire control and several Burgundian players with different victory conditions.

Tongue in cheek, I am tempted to suggest Charles knew the rule set in use meant the heavy rain would seriously disadvantage his missile troops and artillery against the Swiss pikes ...so was hoping for a delayed battle...

I have Burgundians in 15mm & 28mm but no Swiss...

[Chris]

Took a brief look at the Vaughan link . . . will definitely do a closer read and annotation when time permits. Thanks again.

If memory serves, I believe Winkler cited Vaughan quite a bit. Let me check . . . Yes, there it was: 4 The best study on Charles in English is Richard Vaughan, Charles the Bold:
the Last Valois Duke of Burgundy (London: Longman, 1973).

I might move some things around so that I can entertain the counterfactual. However, an assault on a prepared position might be one-sided . . .

Anyway. Possible candidate for Battle Day 2023? What, too early?!

Chris

[Erpingham]

Richard Vaughan, Charles the Bold:
the Last Valois Duke of Burgundy (London: Longman, 1973).

This remains the standard English biography of Charles.  If you haven't read it, it has a lot of information on the Burgundian army and an interesting account of the battle .

In game rules terms, Vaughan states it had stopped raining by the time the battle started.  Certainly, the rain doesn't seem to have effected the Burgundian guns, which are recorded by the Swiss as both shooting and causing casualties.

[Erpingham]

As we are discussing Murten, I thought I might bring up this article which offers an interesting aspect of a canton's relationship with its military professionals.  In this case, to a master gunner who had his hand blown off during the battle.  An interesting story in itself and an insight into medieval technology but also, less directly, a confirmation that the Swiss used guns at the battle.

[gavindbm]

I might move some things around so that I can entertain the counterfactual. However, an assault on a prepared position might be one-sided . . .

But assault troops have advantage in both numbers and quality...so perhaps reasonably balanced?

[Chris]

Time, additional research (need to find an English translation of that one source mentioned by Anthony), and rules will tell . . .

If the counterfactual is realized, then one would have quite a few archers as well as artillery (firing into the front and right flank of the Swiss columns or echelon). The complexity of the "green hedge" is also something to think about. While the records I saw indicated that the roads through allowed an access point, I really wonder if these entry/exit ways would have been more of a chokepoint.

I take your general point, but again, the proof, such as it is, will have to be found in the eventual play.

Again, perhaps this engagement might be an outlier for a future Battle Day?

Cheers,
Chris

[Erpingham]

Things to think about for a counterfactual are mainly on the Burgundian side.  There isn't much sense of the Swiss modifying their tactics because the Burgundians were unprepared.  They would come on like a steam roller whatever and were very hard to stop.  It is sometimes said the Swiss didn't discover fear until the 1520s.  Certainly, their tactics up to then were to advance through whatever the enemy threw at them until they got into contact.

On the Burgundian side, questions might be asked as to what the Burgundian defence plan was.  We know the day before the battle, the Burgundian army was fully arrayed on the field.  We also know that their open battle array was in multiple lines, as we have the evidence of the muster taken the month before the battle.  So we might expect a better defended Grunhag and one or more lines in reserve to deal with any breakthroughs.   We know that a lot of the cavalry companies only started to arm and saddle their horses when the alarm was raised just before the attack.  Burgundian vedettes had come in earlier reporting the enemy advance but Charles chose to ignore them, so one area of counterfactual would have Charles reacting by have the army fall in at that point.  Even if the Burgundians were not fully formed up, their companies and squadrons would be prepared for action and able to respond  better, perhaps being able to counter attack.

[Nick Harbud]

One aspect to consider might be the Swiss command structure that tended to represent a committee of the various canton contingent commanders.  The aborted march that Anthony refers to was reportedly brought about by a decision, made somewhat late in the day, to wait for the Zurich contingent to arrive. 

Elsewhere, I have read that there had already been a number of these false starts.  The battle only took place when it did because one of the canton commanders finally decided there had been enough of this woeful procrastination and just marched his troops off, whilst daring everybody else to follow.

[Chris]

Speaking as a non-expert (what else?), I recall reading in the referenced Winkler paper about Swiss troops from one area or canton force marching so they could participate. They left quite a few of their number along the roadside (exhaustion) and were probably not as fresh as daisies for the battle.

Signed,
Chris - continuing to mull over Murten