The Sarissa "kill-shot"

[Chilliarch]

Interesting chapter from a book I've just stumbled across this morning (online).
https://zoboko.com/text/lmpg1y9r/an-invincible-beast-understanding-the-hellenistic-pike-phalanx-in-action/18

[Imperial Dave]

its a great book and goes into a lot of detail on the mechanics of combat

[Ian61]

I have just read that - seems to be well thought through if a bit hacked about in edit. I don't use pikemen much but how does this fit with the idea of a wedge formation or is that wrong. Do most rulesets agree with high defence and low kill values for pikes as this suggests?

[Chilliarch]

I've just downloaded the pdf and the formatting is preserved properly therein.
I'm only just starting to read it myself but so far it's well written and argued.

[aligern]

I suggest that the author should give more emphasis to the logic tgat aiming at the body is almost certain to hit unless deflected by the shield, whereas aiming at the head would be much more likely to miss and if a head strike dies miss tge pije could become uselessly stuck over the opponent's shoulder. It would be very difficult to hit a small target withha pole that projected fifteen feet ahead of tge pikeman.
Also , did someone not mention on this forum that the wounds that so terrified Philip's men were made by cavalry swords and not the gladius?
Roy

[Duncan Head]

Also , did someone not mention on this forum that the wounds that so terrified Philip's men were made by cavalry swords and not the gladius?

There is no reason to believe that at this date the Roman cavalry used a different sword from the gladius hispaniensis.

[RichT]

OK well I don't know specifically in the case of Zoboko.com if it is a legitimate site or not, but generally speaking, any site that offers free downloads of in-print and for sale books is engaging in theft, as is anyone downloading such books. Down with that sort of thing.

If Zoboko is legit then of course that's different, though you can get electronic versions of An Invincible Beast for under a fiver from guaranteed legitimate sources such as the publisher.

As to the value of the chapter, Matthew does go into a lot of the reenactment and experimental stuff (which other books don't do), the value of which is IMHO doubtful (in this case), but many people like it.

[Chilliarch]

It's most likely illegit - will put book on xmas list to rectify my fault!

[Imperial Dave]

Ive got the ebook and the hard back 

[RichT]

It's most likely illegit - will put book on xmas list to rectify my fault!

Very decent of you!

[Chilliarch]

It's most likely illegit - will put book on xmas list to rectify my fault!

Very decent of you!

Five pdfs later... I hope Pen & Sword appreciate you, Rich! 😁

[Duncan Head]

Five pdfs later... I hope Pen & Sword appreciate you, Rich! 😁

I hope Rich's own books are included among those five!

[Chilliarch]

Five pdfs later... I hope Pen & Sword appreciate you, Rich! 😁

I hope Rich's own books are included among those five!

No, I have his two in hardback - read them last year.

[aligern]

Hhh Duncan, is therecany reason to believe that the Roman cavalry who had previously carried long swords had converted to an infantry length hispaniensis?
To quote tge late Patrick Waterson in 2014.
Well ... in Dionysius VIII.67.5 the Roman cavalry of the 5th/4th century BC carry 'xiphesi makroterois' (long swords), and as we assume that Roman infantry had rearmed with the gladius Hispaniensis by the time of the war against Macedon we might with some justification assume that the cavalry had, too.

Whether the cavalry's gladius Hispaniensis was identical to that of the infantry is another question, which I should not care to attempt to answer.  Livy does however explicitly use the term for the Roman cavalry's swords, so the prima facie interpretation would have them the same.
Did tge Roman cavalry re arm? If so, being a cavalry that largely fought Celts why adopt a shorter sword?
Roy

[Chilliarch]

It depends what one means by "long". According to AMPW, some of the earlier Roman swords were 27.5 inches in length, though weighted for thrusting attacks. I've always been a little sceptical of the Livy passage about the horror evoked in the Macedonians at the sight of their dead, eviscerated by the Romans in combat, since the prime Greek sword for cavalry seems to be the kopis which itself is attested as slicing limbs off etc.
Personally, I think it quite reasonable to assume that the gladius hispaniensis was in use by the Roman cavalry of the period (early 2nd C).