Hellenistic Judeans

[Dave Knight]

There is a kickstarter in progress for 28mm Hellenistic Judeans.  The starter armies are designed for DBMM, which I do not play.  They are Hasmonean,  Late Judean and Maccabean

I would probably use them for Basic Impetus but there appear to be no lists for these, just a Jewish Revolt one.  Can anybody give me a quick intro into the time periods these armies cover and historic opponents?

[Swampster]

Time period would be from the revolt against the Seleucids (170-ish) until Roman rule. At least some of them would be suitable for the Jewish Revolts - after all, a good deal of the evidence is from the revolt period, including the textiles from the Cave of Letter.
Sources for composition include Bks of Maccabees and Josephus. The War of the Sons of Light against the Sons of Darkness Dead Sea scroll probably has some useful stuff but it is difficult to sort the idealistic bits from the reality. Duncan's new intro to AMPW has something about the bronze shields which are mentioned.

Main enemies would be Seleucids, Ptolemies*, Nabataeans, Romans, Parthians and themselves. Also handy as part of most of those armies.

*More potential than actual iirc. Cleo III retook Egypt with an army which was largely Jewish. I think Cleo VII and Herod nearly came to blows.

[nikgaukroger]

John Grainger's "The Wars of the Maccabees" could be a good place to look for an historical overview - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wars-Maccabees-John-D-Grainger-ebook/dp/B00AJ2QEXQ

[Dave Knight]

Thanks both - I have bought the Grainger book

[dwkay57]

I found I Shatzman's book "The Armies of the Hasmonaeans and Herod" very useful when I was putting together my Herodian Jewish army.
There is a thread of discussions about the composition somewhere under this heading on the Forum and I think an article did get published in Slingshot a few years back.

[Dave Knight]

I found I Shatzman's book "The Armies of the Hasmonaeans and Herod" very useful when I was putting together my Herodian Jewish army.
There is a thread of discussions about the composition somewhere under this heading on the Forum and I think an article did get published in Slingshot a few years back.

I will have a look at my back copies - for some reason I rarely think to do that

[Orc65]

Do the Mortem et Gloriam army lists have any value? If so, there area couple of lists for the classical period that might help. https://lurkio.co.uk/meg/meg/wp-content/uploads/MEG2022/MeG-Army-Lists-22-Egypt-and-Judaea-2022-01.pdf

[dwkay57]

The WRG books "Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars" and "Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome" provide some information on Jewish armies of the Maccabean period and the Revolt respectively.
The Osprey book "The Army of Herod the Great" has some good text on the organisation and structure of Herod's army, but - as usual with Osprey publications - some of the illustrations aren't that useful and raise a couple of eyebrows.

[stevenneate]

I contributed an article to Slingshot on the Hasmoneans back in the late 90s (I think) when I built the armies in 15mm.

[stevenneate]

Also, read Josephus.

[stevenneate]

From my reading I always thought the DBM army lists for the Hamonean, Herod and Jewish Revolt periods were very good. So good, in fact, I built all 3 armies in 15mm.

True to form though, all were soundly thrashed when I ran them in DBM competitions.  The fickle figures of fate!

[Dave Knight]

From my reading I always thought the DBM army lists for the Hamonean, Herod and Jewish Revolt periods were very good. So good, in fact, I built all 3 armies in 15mm.

True to form though, all were soundly thrashed when I ran them in DBM competitions.  The fickle figures of fate!

It is just possible that I have those lists somewhere - I will have a look

[Jim Webster]

I contributed an article to Slingshot on the Hasmoneans back in the late 90s (I think) when I built the armies in 15mm.

I did an article in the late 1990s as well on Judean infantry

[gavindbm]

From my reading I always thought the DBM army lists for the Hamonean, Herod and Jewish Revolt periods were very good. So good, in fact, I built all 3 armies in 15mm.

True to form though, all were soundly thrashed when I ran them in DBM competitions.  The fickle figures of fate!

I am sure I remember enjoying your writing about that.... Think it was in Slingshot but might have been some where else.

[John GL]

You'll remember facing my Judaean army, Gavin - it narrowly beat your Akkadians, mainly through shooting.  A favourite army of mine, nicely painted by John Calvert.