Overhead shooting in the late Roman line

[Patrick Waterson]

Great stuff Patrick, but who is it that describes the battle against Ariovistus? Appian? Dio?  Thought you would be the one to know.

As far as I know it is Cassius Dio, but the Lacus Curtius site is not letting me connect (again) so I cannot confirm.  Appian just says:

"For, although the Germans made a tremendous rush and pushed the legions back a short distance, the Romans kept their ranks unbroken, and outmanœuvred [katestrategoun] them, and eventually slew 800000 [oktakismurious] of them."  (That figure made me blink: Caesar's own account makes no such claim.)

Cassius Dio's account is somewhere towards the end of Book 38.  I have seen a Greek text with French translation which suggests that Roy's memory is on the right track. 

I would certainly go along with the idea that the Romans trained for pila-throwing in a number of different terrain situations, with an optimum technique for each.  Putting that much thought and exercise into using one weapon might explain why they did not branch out into bows, darts etc. until the late Empire, and why Arrian's Ektaxis kata Alanon (OB against the Alans) has to be explained in detail: it is a departure from what Caesar's men had been doing, which was presumably still standard Roman practice.

That prompts a thought. Being thrown from higher ground gives pila that extra penetration, without that extra Oomph perhaps a run is necessary to get the extra penetration.

Interesting thought.  There is a quote I seem to remember, perhaps in Frontinus, about missiles flung on the level lacking penetration.  There is certainly one in Ammianus (XIX.5.8 ) when he describes how the defenders of Amida, infuriated by the doings of a deserter:

" ... hurled their various missiles with all their strength, as if they were charging on level ground ..."

So yes, it does look as if on the level a good charge was used to add what gravity did naturally against a downhill opponent.

[Justin Taylor]

I am going to say that I think with Marius at Aquae Sextiae, its a matter of numbers. A charge might help with victory against you against some of the tribesmen but there are an awful lot to kill. So better to take up a position that remains an advantage however many waves come at you.