Bannau Brycheiniog: Views on national park's name change

[Jim Webster]

Surely if you were decolonising the language Caerwent would become Venta Silurum? 

Wouldn't that be recolonising? Latin isn't exactly indigenous.

(though indigenous is inexactly Latin...)

Even Latin had to be indigenous somewhere 

[Imperial Dave]

I doff mine cap to my betters.....I am but a poor pagensis

[Anton]

Everyone says Danes but the pronounciation and some of the words strike me as more like Swedish.

Swedish being more phonologically conservative than Danish, modern Swedish probably sounds more like Viking Age Danish than what modern Danish does.

Now that is interesting Andreas.  Thank you.  I had been puzzling over it.

[Nick Harbud]

Caerwent - fortified enclosure of Venta

Welsh for Winchester?

 

[Imperial Dave]

ha ha.....don't resurrect that one! Someone put that as a central theme of their book about Arthur's capital..... 

[Mark G]

Andreas, from my viewing of many crime thrillers on tv, it sounds to me like modern Danish is quite close to the noise cows make when farting.

Is that unfair?

[Imperial Dave]

more like Freis   

[Cantabrigian]

especially Welsh placenames...they are rich in history and description

But only if you speak Welsh, otherwise they're just meaningless sounds.

If you want to actually preserve the history, then by all means call it "Bannau Brycheiniog" in Welsh, but call it something meaningful in English like "Brychan's Highlands".  Though for marketing reasons "Brychan's Beacons" might work better.

I've had my fill of people inventing new terminology just so they can look down on others for getting it wrong!

[Imperial Dave]

true and I am guilty of taking pleasure in reading the Welsh placenames in my head as they 'translate' into meaning rather than a name ie they are descriptive and meaningful

[Anton]

That's really the whole point Dave.  The original names tell you something about the place and it's people and its history.

I'd rather hope that English monoglots confronted with a Welsh placename might ask the obvious question.  What does that mean?

Signage can easily accommodate translation.

[Imperial Dave]

100%

gives depth and texture to a placename and hence the place

[Justin Swanton]

I doff mine cap to my betters.....I am but a poor pagensis

Not bad Mediaeval Latin for a pagensis, even a pagensis cambricus.

[Imperial Dave]

 

[Cantabrigian]

That's really the whole point Dave.  The original names tell you something about the place and it's people and its history.

But in this case not as much as the modern name.  Because the modern Welsh are overwhelmingly English speakers, so an Anglicised version of an old Welsh name tells you far more about the history of the people who live there.

Pretending that the last 500 years of history didn't happen isn't very respectful to the Welsh.

I'd rather hope that English monoglots confronted with a Welsh placename might ask the obvious question.  What does that mean?

Well that would be one way of getting the name changed back to "Brecon Beacons" pretty quickly!  Imagine if every English speaking visitor grabbed a Welsh speaker to ask them what the Welsh name meant - I'm sure they'd get very bored of that very quickly.

[Anton]

There is simply no need to Anglicise names.  A translation can be offered.

If we want to be respectful of Welsh history and people we might begin by wondering just how the English language came to Wales.  By what proccess did it come to predominate over the native language?  Such questions have contemporary political implications.  That I understand is uncomfortable for some.  History often is.

Would Welsh speakers get bored?  In my experence people are mostly pleased when foriegners express an interest in their culture.