Charging terms

[Ian61]

Sorry - showing my dyslexia (and ignorance) again.

In our recent convention, Ian Russell Lowell was talking about some chariot's/cavalry's ability to charge, fire and turn away in organised fashion. I am sure he used a term beginning with 'c' to describe this that I had not previously taken on board. I thought I had remembered but obviously not!

I have a rider question - is this word then the best to describe chariot actions as, for instance, the British chariots at Mons Graupius in Tacitus's Agricola?

[Erpingham]

Was the word caracole?

[Jon Freitag]

Yep.  "Caracole" is the word you want.

[Jon Freitag]

Ian, to address your rider question, I answer your question with another!

In IRL's work, a chariot caracole on the gaming table is treated differently from a chariot charge.  Think of a charge as weakening or breaking through an enemy line through SHOCK.  A caracole is a weakening of an enemy line through FIREPOWER as a body of chariots rotates in front of an enemy line shooting arrows until the enemy is sufficiently weakened such that a charge will likely prove successful.

My question.  How did British chariots fight at Mons Graupius? 

[Mick Hession]

My question.  How did British chariots fight at Mons Graupius? 

Tacitus doesn't say. He just states that they were attacked by the Roman cavalry and next we hear of them they are in flight and disrupting their infantry. My suspicion, based on Irish  parallels, is that the chariot warriors were the Caledonian show-offs fighting on foot so the chariots were essentially unarmed when attacked

[Duncan Head]

My question.  How did British chariots fight at Mons Graupius? 

Possibly the same way Caesar describes the southern Brits fighting:

In chariot fighting the Britons begin by driving all over the field hurling javelins, and generally the terror inspired by the horses and the noise of the wheels are sufficient to throw their opponents' ranks into disorder. Then, after making their way between the squadrons of their own cavalry, they jump down from the chariot and engage on foot. In the meantime their charioteers retire a short distance from the battle and place the chariots in such a position that their masters, if hard pressed by numbers, have an easy means of retreat to their own lines. Thus they combine the mobility of cavalry with the staying power of infantry; and by daily training and practice they attain such proficiency that even on a steep incline they are able to control the horses at full gallop, and to check and turn them in a moment. They can run along the chariot pole, stand on the yoke, and get back into the chariot as quick as lightning

(Gallic War, IV.33).

[Ian61]

Well I think that gets it neatly wrapped up. Many thanks to all above.

I certainly remember that Tacitus has the chariots moving about a lot, I have always thought of it in the terms I now understand by caracole - you live and you learn. Unfortunately I have a suspicion I lent my copy of Agricola out a few years ago and I fear I may have to replace it.

[dwkay57]

Ducan Campbell's Osprey book on the Battle of Mons Graupius has them getting caught up in the infantry melee and causing more confusion than help. He also has the chariots bearing scythes.

[Nick Harbud]

That sounds like the customary stretching of the evidence, a bit like this depiction of the English under Talbot storming the St Laurent priory during the Battle of Castillon.  Note the magnificent cloister that is probably larger than the entire priory was during the 15^th century.

[Erpingham]

From re-reading Tacitus, there is very little you can say from his account, except the chariots were deployed forward with the cavalry. Any detail has to be suggested from elsewhere.

[Ian61]

Yes I have downloaded an e-copy of the Penguin classic of the Agricola I read and agree with Anthony et al above.

Concerning:

Ducan Campbell's Osprey book on the Battle of Mons Graupius has them getting caught up in the infantry melee and causing more confusion than help. He also has the chariots bearing scythes.

I can see the scythes on the cover online. I don't currently have any of this type of Osprey book but have just yesterday sent off for a couple (the Mons Graupus is 2010 I have sent for: 'The Armies of the Carthaginian Wars'(1982) and 'The Numidians'(2021)) - are they then not to be trusted??

[Erpingham]

are they then not to be trusted??

I don't think you can make a generic judgement on Ospreys.  Some are much better than others. So it's down to checking reviews of volumes you are interested in, or asking opinions in trusted online gathering places.  Personally, I tend to avoid the MAA ones these days, just because their short format doesn't give much space to discuss evidence for what they are saying, but I still find some of the other series useful.

[Duncan Head]

I don't currently have any of this type of Osprey book but have just yesterday sent off for a couple (the Mons Graupus is 2010 I have sent for: 'The Armies of the Carthaginian Wars'(1982) and 'The Numidians'(2021)) - are they then not to be trusted??

Terry Wise's "Armies of the Carthaginian Wars" is not to be entirely trusted. It has Peter Connolly's Carthaginian pikemen - resulting from a dodgy translation in the Loeb Polybios, picked up and misinterpreted by PC - and his cavalry on armoured horses, based on, err... no evidence at all.

The newer Numidian book is better, though I'd not agree with everything in it.

[Duncan Head]

There are several ancient writers who describe British chariots with scythes, but none of them are eye-witnesses; and since we do have some contemporary campaign accounts, who are all silent about scythes, it's likely that the scythes are mere exoticising. This piece is a good summary.

On the other hand, there are some surviving short blades that were attached to the wheelhubs of Chinese chariots, without making them into the full Persian-style scythed expendable gimmick, so it's not impossible that some Brit had a similar idea for discouraging Roman foot from getting too close.

[dwkay57]

I generally find the text in the Osprey books to be largely Ok in that as far as I can tell most of the authors are usually "respected". However, some of the illustrations I tend to suspect might be a bit dodgy and not entirely appropriate. I do sometimes wonder whether the illustrator and author actually met........

In the book - the other Duncan (Campbell) references Pomponius Mela (Chor.3.6.=2) and Silius Italicus (Sil.Ital Pun. 17.418-19) in terms of the potential for scythes on chariots. He also considers whether the driver was the noble and the passenger just riding shot-gun for him. That and the scythes might imply different tactics to southern Celts Caesar encountered.