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Burmese (Bagan) Allied Contingents

Started by Aetius-last-of-the-Romans, June 30, 2024, 09:25:30 PM

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nikgaukroger

Quote from: Duncan Head on July 02, 2024, 03:56:18 PMCoedes' Indianized Kingdoms of Southeast Asia (p.181 of my 1968 ppbk) says that the Chinese writer Chao Ju-kua lists P'u-kan (Pagan/Bagan) amongst Angkor's vassal-states; and he says "Its claims over Burma were perhaps based on the fact that Burmese contingents accompanied Cambodian armies in their expedition of 1207 against Dai Viet". A footnote links this to an Angkor inscription.

Page 171 mentions Burmese and Siamese, but just Burmese on 181 as you note.
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Duncan Head

Ah, I missed that p171 ref in my quick scan through!
Duncan Head

nikgaukroger

I only found it by going to the wrong page after you posted  :o
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Aetius-last-of-the-Romans

#18
Quote from: Duncan Head on July 02, 2024, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: Aetius-last-of-the-Romans on June 30, 2024, 09:25:30 PMCan anybody give me a source for Khmer armies having Burmese (Bagan) allied contingents in various army lists please?
Unfortunately, a lot of the discussion for the DBMM lists was carried out on an old Yahoo email list, and vanished when Yahoo Lists did. But I think I may have found the source for this one.

Coedes' Indianized Kingdoms of Southeast Asia (p.181 of my 1968 ppbk) says that the Chinese writer Chao Ju-kua lists P'u-kan (Pagan/Bagan) amongst Angkor's vassal-states; and he says "Its claims over Burma were perhaps based on the fact that Burmese contingents accompanied Cambodian armies in their expedition of 1207 against Dai Viet". A footnote links this to an Angkor inscription.

Interesting stuff Duncan - thank you.
I must admit I wasn't aware that any 'Burmese' states were Angkor's vassals. But that north western corner of S.E.Asia was a complex patchwork of different states, allegiances and ethnicities.

However, it's a fair old trek across to northern Vietnam for them, but I suppose that when the Empire calls, the Burmese answered  :D
I haven't seen the Angkor inscription either, so will have a go at finding that, as the only one I'm aware of refers to the Thai/Siamese contingent in the Angkor Wat processions. It might however be that one of the 'unidentified' contingents at the Bayon (at Angkor Thom) are actually Burmese, which might explain who they are, and that the Vietnamese being attacked are actually Cham. But that is just supposition.

Much appreciated
Mark

nikgaukroger

The Chinese source Duncan mentioned is partly available in translation here - https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/39bce63e4e0642d3abce6c24db470760

and a translation of the whole thing from 1911 here - https://archive.org/details/cu31924023289345/page/n7/mode/2up

From the website version:

"Vassal states of this country include: Dengliumei (Tambralinga = Nakhon Si Thammarat), Bosilan (possibly  Sóc Trăng ), Luohu ( Lavo ), Sanpo ("Three Lakes," unidentified), Zhenlifu (possibly  Chanthaburi ), Maluowen (possibly the  Kraburi River ), Luyang (unidentified), Tunlifu (unidentified), Pugan (Pagan), Wali (possibly  Myeik ), Xipeng (unidentified), Duhuai (possibly  Dawei ), and Xunfan (possibly  Chumphon )."
"The Roman Empire was not murdered and nor did it die a natural death; it accidentally committed suicide."

Aetius-last-of-the-Romans

Quote from: nikgaukroger on July 02, 2024, 08:08:01 PMThe Chinese source Duncan mentioned is partly available in translation here - https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/39bce63e4e0642d3abce6c24db470760

and a translation of the whole thing from 1911 here - https://archive.org/details/cu31924023289345/page/n7/mode/2up


Many thanks Nik - most helpful - especially the reference to the Khmer King being able to field some 200,000 elephants (e.g. a lot  :) )