War Elephants

[vexillia]

Found this whilst trying to figure out what type of elephant Phyrrus used.  Posted in case it's of use to anyone else.

https://nabataea.net/explore/history/the-elephant-and-the-nabataeans/

[Imperial Dave]

thanks Martin.

[Swampster]

As far as Pyrrhus's elephants are concerned, Justin says they were given by Ptolemy Ceraunus and Pausanias says they were captured from from Demetrius. Some historians have suggested that both is true - either being different elephants acquired in different ways or by this rather convoluted route - Demetrius -> Pyrrhus -> Lysimachus -> Ptolemy C. -> Pyrrhus again.

Who owned them beforehand is also debated. They could have been sent by Alex to Antipater and been in Macedon, they could have been in Antigonus M's army (either from some of Alex's or some brought by Eudemus and captured after Gabiene).  They could have been part of Seleucus's load from Chandragupta, co-opted by Ptolemy K.

Whichever route they took, they'd be Indian elephants. Egypt hadn't begun seriously begun their elephant hunts in Africa (if at all) and likely still had many survivors captured from Perdiccas in 321 and from Demetrius in 312.

Regarding the article, it is possible that Demetrius (or his revellers) made up the title of elephantarch in an attempt to belittle Seleucus, though it doesn't seem to have bothered him. The title is referred to by Appian in reference to Antiochus II's army and Josephus uses it for the period of the Macc. wars, so presumably was genuine, but not as specific (and with more status than) as Aelian & Asclep. use it

[Aetius-last-of-the-Romans]

For those interested in more info (?) on the 'Giant Elephants' of Nepal, here's a link to a couple of Youtube videos' via an article: https://www.zoochat.com/community/threads/giant-elephants-of-nepal-documentaries.476567/

Personally, I am doubtful that these are some sort of mammoth 'throw-backs' but are probably the result of interbreeding in the very small (& rapidly declining) existing Nepalese native elephant stock. Giantism is not uncommon in isolated populations of animals (such as the 'giant' birds of New Zealand etc).

[Ian61]

Interesting collation of anti-elephant measures. I had not heard of the Nepalese elephants before so that is interesting. I sort of agree with Mark above about the mammoth theory, I suspect more wishful thinking that reality although over the depth of time there will be some links, I remind folks that most of us will have a few percent Neanderthal DNA! It is easily possible this is true for some elephants regarding Mammoths depending on the actual separation of the species in terms of DNA.

[DBS]

Of course, there was also at one time the Syrian elephant, hunted with such enthusiasm by the Assyrian kings.  I don't think anyone has ever come up with convincing evidence of them having been tamed and put to use, and they are generally assumed to have been hunted to extinction by Hellenistic times.

[Aetius-last-of-the-Romans]

If I remember correctly, the fossilized bones of a type 'pygmy' elephant have been found on various islands in the Mediterranean, but I don't think the dating would mean that they existed concurrent with homo-sapiens.
Whether they were genetically related to the North African Forest Elephant I don't know.

[Andreas Johansson]

The Mediterranean island pygmy elephant species used, on morphological grounds, to be thought closer to Indian elephants, but genetic work has now shown them closer to African elephants, particularly the forest species. Where this leaves them in relation to North African elephants is unclear as no genetic material is known from that (sub)species, but it's clear they reached the islands from the north, from ancestors who had trekked from Africa through the Middle East, so if they're particularly close to their North African neighbours that's a geographical accident.

At least one species, Palaeoloxodon cypriotes, survived long enough to encounter fully modern humans - indeed, its extinction ca 12,000 years ago is just after the first arrival of humans on Cyprus.

[Ian61]

If I remember correctly, the fossilized bones of a type 'pygmy' elephant have been found on various islands in the Mediterranean, but I don't think the dating would mean that they existed concurrent with homo-sapiens.
Whether they were genetically related to the North African Forest Elephant I don't know.

Unfortunately for the elephants (certainly on Cyprus) they lived concurrently with Homo Sapiens for a very brief period. I suspect they tasted very good.

I read up about this because my children were listening to Tony Robinson's brilliant Odysseus stories on tapes during journeys and we discussed the origins of the Cyclops that many think inspired by skulls of elephants.

The Med flooded just over 5 million years ago. For the elephants it was adapt or die and they grew smaller to cope with reduction of food supply. I have just looked up on Wikipedia and that  and suggests that on the different islands were...

mostly members of the genus Palaeoloxodon, descending from the large 4 metres (13 ft) tall mainland European species Palaeoloxodon antiquus, though two species represent dwarf mammoths.

Ah! I have just noticed another post going in but I will put this in  anyway.

[Keraunos]

I was intrigued by the idea of fossil elephant skulls inspiring the myth of the Cyclops.  Thanks to Mr Google I now understand how this might have been so.  Fascinating.

[Erpingham]

Though we should note it is a modern theory.  I don't think any ancient evidence for it has turned up.