The battle of Himera 480 BC

[Imperial Dave]

https://greekreporter.com/2024/11/19/battle-himera-ancient-greece-victory-carthage-dominance-mediterranean/

Hopefully of passing interest...

[Keraunos]

Of more than passing interest.  It is good to see events in the Western Mediterranean being linked with those further east. 

What is depressing is the headline and conclusion repeating the old trope about battles changing history, assuming that we know which way history is going before it hit a bump on the road.  We humans are extremely bad at predicting what the future is going to be and it never seems sensible to me to assume we can claim any knowledge of which way history would have gone if only it hadn't! 

[Imperial Dave]

 

[Ian61]

Of more than passing interest.  It is good to see events in the Western Mediterranean being linked with those further east. 

What is depressing is the headline and conclusion repeating the old trope about battles changing history, assuming that we know which way history is going before it hit a bump on the road.  We humans are extremely bad at predicting what the future is going to be and it never seems sensible to me to assume we can claim any knowledge of which way history would have gone if only it hadn't! 

Wise words. Of course it is easy to forget the bigger picture of the Carthaginians being Phoecian and therefore having ties to events and actors to the East of the Mediterranean world.

[Duncan Head]

We do already have a thread on Himera in the Ancient Battles forum, if anyone wants to check out the sources:

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=250.0

[Adrian Nayler]

I've added this information to Duncan's post linked to above. Perhaps it may be of interest?

Recent excavation revealed burials of what is thought to be 'Greeks' killed at Himera. Further scientific studies suggest that the origins of the deceased were varied and not at all local. This has been interpreted potentially as indicating 'mercenaries' in the Greek forces.

Isotopic evidence for geographic heterogeneity in Ancient Greek military forces

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0248803

The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2205272119#:~:text=Most%20Himerans%20associated%20with%20the,and%20fifth%2Dcentury%2DBCE%20Greek

Adrian.

[Imperial Dave]

We do already have a thread on Himera in the Ancient Battles forum, if anyone wants to check out the sources:

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=250.0

What a memory

[Erpingham]

What a memory

As Duncan wrote it, its not entirely surprising he remembered doing so