Excavation rewrites Roman empire fall

[Imperial Dave]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a64051065/excavation-changes-roman-empire-history/

Hopefully not repeated elsewhere...

[Justin Swanton]

Am I missing something? The Western Empire crumbled in the 5th century, not the 3rd. How does a town that fizzled out 200 years before the Empire fell say anything about the timeline of the collapse?

[Imperial Dave]

I didn't write it....

But yes I was wondering....continuity?

[Erpingham]

Remind me when the Roman Empire used to fall, before the discovery of this site?  My recollection is it made it into the 5th century, whereas this site seems to finish in the late 3rd century.

Add : Apologies - this crossed with Justin's post, which notes the same temporal issue.

[Adrian Nayler]

Should we not by now be anticipating this week's journalist's hyperbole to out-hyperbole all previous journalists' hyperbole?

Should you be interested, you can find more information about the project at Interamna Lirenas here:

https://www.classics.cam.ac.uk/research/projects/interamna-lirenas

Presumably the source of the journalist's story was the open access volume 'Interamna Lirenas: A Roman town in Central Italy revealed' which you can find here:

https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/items/3d803b87-b120-4a84-8ce0-510a56e3d1cd

[Justin Swanton]

There was the crisis of the 3rd century, when emperors were changed like old clothing and the Empire split into 3 pieces with barbarian incursions as far as Spain, but it pulled itself together under Aurelian and after him Diocletian, the latter who after 20 years of hard fighting restored the frontiers. Then a fairly stable era until Theodosius at the end of the 4th century when the fall really began under his incompetent sons Honorius and Arcadius.

[Duncan Head]

Remind me when the Roman Empire used to fall, before the discovery of this site?

According to The Fall of the Roman Empire (1964), with Alec Guinness, sorry, Marcus Aurelius.

Personally, I reckon it was all downhill from Augustus.

[Ian61]

Remind me when the Roman Empire used to fall, before the discovery of this site?

According to The Fall of the Roman Empire (1964), with Alec Guinness, sorry, Marcus Aurelius.

Personally, I reckon it was all downhill from Augustus.

Surprisingly I had never seen this film so sat down to watch it a few weeks ago. Sorry not a fan, I got bored and gave up in less than half an hour.

[Imperial Dave]

I blame Tarquin...

[Jim Webster]

I blame Tarquin...

I always felt that blame had to be apportioned fairly, and Romulus is the man to blame

[Justin Swanton]

You could get theological and blame Adam (actually Eve).

[Keraunos]

Am I missing something? The Western Empire crumbled in the 5th century, not the 3rd. How does a town that fizzled out 200 years before the Empire fell say anything about the timeline of the collapse?

Didn't you know that Rome started declining the moment they threw the Tarquins out?  OK, there were a few ups along the way but the general trajectory was down 

[Erpingham]

According to The Fall of the Roman Empire (1964), with Alec Guinness, sorry, Marcus Aurelius.

Ah, legions in snowy mountains.  Alec Guiness' try out for Obi Wan Kenobi.

[Justin Swanton]

Am I missing something? The Western Empire crumbled in the 5th century, not the 3rd. How does a town that fizzled out 200 years before the Empire fell say anything about the timeline of the collapse?

Didn't you know that Rome started declining the moment they threw the Tarquins out?  OK, there were a few ups along the way but the general trajectory was down 

Oh, right.

[Justin Swanton]

The NY Times review of the movie was....interesting:

So massive and incoherent is it, so loaded with Technicolored spectacles, tableaus and military melees that have no real meaning or emotional pull, that you're likely to have the feeling after sitting through its more than three hours (not counting time out for intermission), that the Roman Empire has fallen on you.

Meself I'm of the opinion that the Roman Empire managed well enough until the sack of Constantinople in 1204.