Khitan Lioa "halberd"

[nikgaukroger]

The Khitan ordo cavalry equipment list is usually given as:

"3 horses, 1 forager, 1 orderly, 9 pieces of iron armour, saddle cloths, bridles, armour of leather and iron according to their strength, 4 bows, 400 arrows, a long and a short spear, a club (probably a mace), axe, halberd, small banner, hammer, awl, knife and flint, bucket for the horse, bag for dried food, a grappling hook, a felt umbrella, and 200 foot of rope to tie horses."

Does anyone know what word is used that gets translated as "halberd" or any suggestions as to what it actually was?

[stevenneate]

Don't know about the halberd, but the list of equipment is missing gaffer tape. How do the Khitan fix all that stuff?

[stevenneate]

Seriously, Slingshot needs an article on how the Khitan equipped themselves and did reality live up to theory?

I used to see a lot of Khitan armies under older WRG army lists and many of them beat my Galatians to a pulp. But seriously, my guys only have a sword or spear and no clothes so decision making is easy, Khitan have so many choices they must be confused?

[Jim Webster]

Seriously, Slingshot needs an article on how the Khitan equipped themselves and did reality live up to theory?

I used to see a lot of Khitan armies under older WRG army lists and many of them beat my Galatians to a pulp. But seriously, my guys only have a sword or spear and no clothes so decision making is easy, Khitan have so many choices they must be confused?

Each Khitan horseman has his own individual caddie who hands him the appropriate weapon without him having to stop and think about it

[Denis Grey]

.................

Does anyone know what word is used that gets translated as "halberd" or any suggestions as to what it actually was?

I don't, but I'm guessing it's similar to the weapon used by the Han "halberd-armed" cavalry.

[Andreas Johansson]

According to this paper the "halberds" of Song cavalry were broad-headed lances. It doesn't say explicitly, but the implication seems to be that the Kitans' "halberds" were the same.

[nikgaukroger]

Seriously, Slingshot needs an article on how the Khitan equipped themselves and did reality live up to theory?

I used to see a lot of Khitan armies under older WRG army lists and many of them beat my Galatians to a pulp. But seriously, my guys only have a sword or spear and no clothes so decision making is easy, Khitan have so many choices they must be confused?

Each Khitan horseman has his own individual caddie who hands him the appropriate weapon without him having to stop and think about it

Well, the equipment list includes a forager and an orderly ...

It has, of course, been suggested that the lst of equipment includes the battlefield kit of these 2 as well.

[nikgaukroger]

.................

Does anyone know what word is used that gets translated as "halberd" or any suggestions as to what it actually was?

I don't, but I'm guessing it's similar to the weapon used by the Han "halberd-armed" cavalry.

I don't think those are right for the Han cavalry anyway. IIRC they used the "ji" which is a dagger-axe/spear combo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ji_(polearm)

[Keraunos]

I have consulted the oracle and been given the following advice -

"Seems like that specific formulation comes from only one website so I can't track down the original source at all, but I would surmise that it might be referring to a later evolution of the 'dagger-axe', either the hook-spear on the far left of fig. 1, or either of fig. 2"

You cannot view this attachment.. Figure 1

You cannot view this attachment.. Figure 2 

[nikgaukroger]

Thanks 

I've always felt the "hook spear" may be the most likely, but only on gut feel basis.

[Denis Grey]

.................

Does anyone know what word is used that gets translated as "halberd" or any suggestions as to what it actually was?

I don't, but I'm guessing it's similar to the weapon used by the Han "halberd-armed" cavalry.

I don't think those are right for the Han cavalry anyway. IIRC they used the "ji" which is a dagger-axe/spear combo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ji_(polearm)

I feared that might be the case, but I'm rather fond of the figures, so I shan't be replacing them.

[Andreas Johansson]

Acc'd the WP page, weapons like the LH one in Fig. 2 were called ji in Song times, which word is usually translated as "halberd".

[Erpingham]

For a wider range of examples to fuel the imagination, wiki has a page on Chinese polearms. Quite an extensive bibliography but really only two books provide the cited evidence.

[nikgaukroger]

I have consulted the oracle and been given the following advice -

"Seems like that specific formulation comes from only one website so I can't track down the original source at all,

The source of the equipment list is the Liao Shi (via Wittfogel and Feng "History of Chinese Society Liao, 907-1125")

[stevenneate]

Graff (Medieval Chinese Warfare, 300-900) mentions on p.41 the changeover from the Ji to simpler spears and lances by the end of the Eastern Han period but does not reference it.

He describes it as a "long-handled weapon with several blades that was used as much for hooking as for thrusting".