Stone throwing

[Erpingham]

Reading through Karen Becker's dissertation (see the Morgarten thread) that stone throwing was a distinctive part of Swiss tactics.  She notes its use at Morgarten (1315) and Sempach (1386).  It is also recorded at laupen (1339).

Now, stone throwing does occur in various medieval combats.  The Vikings were quite into stone throwing (and, indeed, the Kings Mirror, a manual for household warriors, includes stone throwing as something they should practice).  In Britain, it appears at the battle of Falkirk (1298) and at Lincoln in 1141, where king Stephen is disabled by a stone and captured.  In Italy, a thrown stone wounds Konrad von Landau in the face at the battle of Canturino in 1363, leading to his mortal wounding by a lance shortly afterwards.

Doubtless, the more classical among us will find numerous examples of similar rock hurling in antiquity.

Now, clearly, in many cases, the stone is a weapon of opportunity and, outside skirmish games, probably doesn't need to be considered rules wise.  But are there examples where we should take it into account e.g. as a skirmisher weapon?

[Duncan Head]

Doubtless, the more classical among us will find numerous examples of similar rock hurling in antiquity.

Indeed.

DBM/MM tends to just treat stone-throwers as "inferior psiloi", which seems fair enough. But I vaguely recall one older WRG edition which allowed troops on a steep hill to throw stones or roll rocks down the slope.

[tadamson]

Piles of fist sized pebbles (for throwing by hand, or with a sling/staff sling) are a relatively common feature in the archaeology of fortifications throughout our period.  The also feature in various written sources.

[valentinianvictor]

Warriors throwing stones were also a feature of Guanche armies in the Canary Isles.

[Tim]

Not sure if tiles quite count as stones but certainly tiles are generally an improvised weapon and rather useful in certain circumstances - as Pyrrhus of Epirus found out to his cost.

[Mick Hession]

Hand-thrown stones were very common in Irish warfare and could be more effective against Norman Knights than javelins. An Irish account of Pharsalus (for which I'm working out a slingshot piece) has this passage, for example:


"With that the armies resorted to their missiles, and began to hurl them from each of the two sides. They were too numerous to estimate. Hurled between them were many edged javelins and deadly, pointed darts, and stakes with their ends burnt, and arrows dipped and gilded, and conical hand-stones, and flagstones for flinging, and apple-lumps of iron, and plug-lumps of lead, and round sling-stones."

Cheers
Mick

[Jim Webster]

Not sure if tiles quite count as stones but certainly tiles are generally an improvised weapon and rather useful in certain circumstances - as Pyrrhus of Epirus found out to his cost.

millstones (for a household not a watermill) dropped on people were a popular option as well

Jim

[Mark G]

Hussites kept boxes in their wagons full of stones, apparently

[Jim Webster]

cheap, widely available, everybody has been practicing using them since the age of about three or four

[RichT]

In urban areas, roof tiles take the place of stones. Just ask Pyrrhus.

Come on rules writers - Civilians +1 v. Superior General in BUA, or your rules are rubbish.

[Patrick Waterson]

Josephus, Jewish War, Book III, chapter 7, section 21:

"And here a certain Jew appeared worthy of our relation and commendation; he was the son of Sameas, and was called Eleazar, and was born at Saab, in Galilee. This man took up a stone of a vast bigness, and threw it down from the wall upon the ram, and this with so great a force, that it broke off the head of the engine."

[Jim Webster]

Josephus, Jewish War, Book III, chapter 7, section 21:

"And here a certain Jew appeared worthy of our relation and commendation; he was the son of Sameas, and was called Eleazar, and was born at Saab, in Galilee. This man took up a stone of a vast bigness, and threw it down from the wall upon the ram, and this with so great a force, that it broke off the head of the engine."

Almost qualifies as an ethnic weapon 

Judges 9:50-57

50 Next Abimelek went to Thebez and besieged it and captured it. 51 Inside the city, however, was a strong tower, to which all the men and women—all the people of the city—had fled. They had locked themselves in and climbed up on the tower roof. 52 Abimelek went to the tower and attacked it. But as he approached the entrance to the tower to set it on fire, 53 a woman dropped an upper millstone on his head and cracked his skull.

54 Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say, 'A woman killed him.'" So his servant ran him through, and he died. 55 When the Israelites saw that Abimelek was dead, they went home.

[Erpingham]

We seem to have several trends here.  In defensive warfare, rocks can be stockpiled or ad hoc weapons.  They can also be larger, able to breal siege equipment.  In the open field, two strands of use - weapon of opportunity and coming into the field expecting to throw rocks.  In this latter case, do we presume rocks are picked up from the battlefield rather than carried on to it? 

[tadamson]

I vaguely recall a Roman account of soldiers being sent to collect stones from a riverbed.  I think it may be in a play

??  Patrick ??

[Duncan Head]

I vaguely recall a Roman account of soldiers being sent to collect stones from a riverbed.  I think it may be in a play

Vegetius IV.8 - "Saxa rotunda de fluuiis, quia pro soliditate grauiora sunt et aptiora mittentibus, diligentissime colliguntur".