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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Ships and Navies => Topic started by: BjörnF on September 23, 2023, 07:58:22 PM

Title: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: BjörnF on September 23, 2023, 07:58:22 PM
From what I understand, the Greeks used amphoras to store cargo, such as silver coins, while travelling on ships. How many amphoras could a "normal" merchant ship hold in its cargo? I found a Roman merchant ship on Google that carried about 6000 amphoras, which was an unusually large quantity.
Title: Re: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: Mark G on September 23, 2023, 09:45:18 PM
Is the amphora sized fixed though?
Title: Re: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: BjörnF on September 23, 2023, 10:05:49 PM
I don't know, but it sounds like they were. When I did a quick google search it looks like that: Link to google search with a lot of nice pictures (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=567894573&q=ancient+merchant+ships+amphora&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj99sSj0MGBAxV1VPEDHUwgDyMQ0pQJegQICRAB&biw=1920&bih=947&dpr=1)
When I looked up "Attic talent" on wikipedia it says: "A talent was originally intended to be the mass of water required to fill an amphora, about one cubic foot (28 L)" so it sounds it was standardised. But I have no idea.
But why am I interested in this? Because I want to try to calculate how many ships Harpalus needed to ship of his stolen money to Athens and later Crete. Is it important? No, but fun trivia.
Title: Re: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: Orc65 on September 24, 2023, 12:28:53 AM
"Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World (https://www.amazon.com.au/Ships-Seamanship-Ancient-Lionel-Casson/dp/0801851300/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=)", Lionel Casson, 1986. might be useful. I also found a link on the Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/ships-and-seamanship-in-the-ancient-world)
Title: Re: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: Erpingham on September 24, 2023, 10:35:02 AM
There is an old but detailed paper on the literary evidence here (https://www.jstor.org/stable/4428898) available for free reading on Jstor.  This mentions ships of 2,000 and 3,000 amphorae. It also picks up Mark's point that amphorae varied in size depending on their area of origin and use.  It has an appendix on amphora stacking. Talking of which, there is a nice watercolour illustration of this online

(https://www.ancientportsantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Navire-romain-Gassend1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: Jim Webster on September 24, 2023, 12:48:30 PM
Quote from: BjörnF on September 23, 2023, 10:05:49 PMI don't know, but it sounds like they were. When I did a quick google search it looks like that: Link to google search with a lot of nice pictures (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=567894573&q=ancient+merchant+ships+amphora&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj99sSj0MGBAxV1VPEDHUwgDyMQ0pQJegQICRAB&biw=1920&bih=947&dpr=1)
When I looked up "Attic talent" on wikipedia it says: "A talent was originally intended to be the mass of water required to fill an amphora, about one cubic foot (28 L)" so it sounds it was standardised. But I have no idea.
But why am I interested in this? Because I want to try to calculate how many ships Harpalus needed to ship of his stolen money to Athens and later Crete. Is it important? No, but fun trivia.

fun trivia but fascinating. When you have the answer please share it
Title: Re: Ancient Merchant Ships
Post by: BjörnF on September 24, 2023, 02:01:18 PM
Thank you everyone!
(and sorry for posting in the wrong sub).