What evidence exists to identify what "camps" were used by armies in antiquity?

[CarlL]

OK, it's a random question that came to mind after reading historical texts around the Spartacus (and two earlier Sicily) revolt(s) and this describing slave revolts fortifying likes of rocky outcrop as base and Spartacus surprising Romans in night attack on their camp. But what do we know of real camps in antiquity, say pre 1066? Camps rather than fortifications, although on likes of Hadrian's Wall it could be argued that early camps became wooden fortifications that became stone fortifications in places on the Wall?

Camps I suppose became popular on tabletops with the popularity of DBA rules and games. And it's a feature in more modern rules like "To The Strongest". Probably in others where my knowledge is limited?

But I have to say I have virtually no knowledge base (from history or archaeology) bar those descriptions of Roman "playing card" forts in Britain that have been popularised by writers, TV, and popular magazines.

I don't recall articles in Slingshot but over many years of being a member many have probably slipped from memory?

Do other members have a 'tighter grip' on the facts? Probably! Definitely!
Go on spill the beans!

For example do we know if Romans actually erected any gate (let alone gateway) when setting up an overnight (or short term) camp in hostile country?

CarlL

[vexillia]

See this page which quotes Polybious on Greek & Roman stakes - https://baueda.com/fog6.html

[Duncan Head]

There are a lot of archaeological traces of Roman camps - even apart from the siege-camps at Numantia and Alesia, which are obviously less temporary, the sites of marching camps are used to map Agricola's campaigns in Scotland, for instance.

Polybios's account of Republican Roman camps is at https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Polybius/6*.html

Hyginus's account of Imperial Roman camps is at https://www.roman-britain.co.uk/classical-references/de-munitionibus-castrorum-pseudo-hyginus/

The Egyptian camp at Kadesh is shown on the reliefs, and there are some rough representations of Assyrian camps on their reliefs. Lagos' Who Really Won the Battle of Marathon? reckons to have identified the site of the Greek camp - a rough low stone wall, IIRC.

[simonw]

There are depictions of the Egyptian 'marching' camp at Kadesh which was attacked by the Hittites. This is strong evidence of the principle that 'the ancients' were well aware of the need to construct temporary defences when on campaign (no matter how flimsy) and presumably an organised distribution of the various contingents in the army within the defined camp area, long before the Romans. Never underestimate the sophistication of 'the ancients'. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence no matter how often the politicians say so or imply.

[simonw]

Sorry for the duplication Duncan. I have been fortunate enough to see the Kadesh paintings at Abu Simbel in person; one of my lifetime ambitions.

[Duncan Head]

Lucky you!

[CarlL]

Thank you ALL, you are STARS!

But plenty of scope for more? I mean what do we know of Hellenistic camps?

I know Caesar gives description of the works (and counter works) at Alesia (52BCE)? [And there are some interesting re-constructions in France which are well photographed see for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alesia ]

And what of Sun Tzu and his "The Art of War"? It's that long since I read my (abridged) SoA copy I can't recall what he says!!

CarlL

[CarlL]

Thanks Martin / Vexillia,
as you say Baueda make great use of "Polybius, in Book XVIII Campaign of Flamininus in Thessaly and Battle of Cynoscephalae" to describe the difference between Roman and Hellenistic camp stakes!! Which seems different from the later Roman shaped stake carried by Marius mules (onwards) ... or did I get this wrong? I shall read on in Duncan's links to find out....

CarlL

[CarlL]

Duncan's link to Polybius (on line) gives us detailed instructions of how interior of the camp is laid out [from section 26 onwards - page 327 as numbered in right hand margin] but little detail of the camps defences, so in section 41 - page 365 onwards it describes the camp as having "entrenchment and stockading" but not how these are constructed. 

Later when describing how troops are dismissed within camp it talks of "the gate" but as there is n Greek / Latin text one cannot immediately tell how this word was arrived at, could it be literally a gate, or a gateway or simply an entrance way? Quite intriguing.

CarlL

[CarlL]

pseudo-hyginus is interesting.

section / para 48 identifies five aspects of summer camps: "ditch, rampart, stakes, stockade and weapons"

s. / para 49 identifies a V shape and a Punic shape ditch!!

s. / para 50, is worth quoting in full: "50. In less secure places a rampart of turf, stone, rocks or rubble should be thrown up. Eight feet wide and six feet wide will suffice, and a little parapet. There should also be a rampart before the gates along the titulum as along the ditches; because of the construction it is known as "sanctum"."

s. / para 51 deals with stakes (and is quoted below) and s/ para 52 with what to do if no material for stakes or no secure footing for them exists. s. /ara 51 =
" 51. The stakes are trunks with their branches. They are resorted to if the nature of the soil is too friable causing the turfs to break, if a thick enough rampart cannot be built because of the looseness of the stones, or if a ditch cannot be dug without the sides collapsing."

s. / para 58 highlights use of artillery on ramparts in hostile terrain.

These suggestions come from an unknown engineer hence pseudo, as previously accredited to Hyginus, and believed to have been written: "Pseudo-Hyginus wrote sometime in the last half of the second century, between the reigns of Trajan and Septimius Severus." so our Imperial Roman Army not that of the Republic of Rome.

CarlL

[Swampster]

Thank you ALL, you are STARS!

But plenty of scope for more? I mean what do we know of Hellenistic camps?

CarlL

Diodorus https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/20E*.html#108 talks of the camp which Lysimachus prepared. It was built in a strong position to avoid facing Antigonos in battle rather than in preparation for battle. It developed into quite a fortification - with deep ditch and triple stockade - which Antigonos besieged.

Much later, Mithridates VI's armies seem to have been so accustomed to building a fortified camp that Archelaus is noted as having built one even though he didn't expect to fight an engagement. This meant that even though the camp was built, it was in a poor position. https://www.livius.org/sources/content/appian/appian-the-mithridatic-wars/appian-the-mithridatic-wars-9/ Appian mentions gates being opened though whether this is strictly accurate or his own addition is another matter. Fimbria's attack at night on another occasion may have been against a camp since a later Roman night attack certainly was.

[Keraunos]

Apart from the written sources are there any archaeological findings that might help?  Many Roman marching camps have been identified and excavated but my knowledge does not extend to the Greek world.  Does anyone know of any accessible reports?

[Mark G]

Finding a site of a Greek marching camp seems the first problem.
Only after that could you find out if there is enough left to make any interpretation.

[gavindbm]

For the battles covered in Phil Sabin's Lost Battles, armies either have a fortified, unfortified or no camp (sometimes as it was too far to the rear to appear on the battlefield).

[Keraunos]

Here is some evidence from really early antiquity, but I guess a defended settlement is not the sort of camp that this thread was first thinking of?


https://cosmosmagazine.com/history/archaeology/oldest-fortress-siberia/#:~:text=Amnya%20is%20the%20northern%2Dmost,2%2C500%20km%20northeast%20of%20Moscow.