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Gaming => Battle Reports => Topic started by: simonw on July 02, 2023, 02:24:21 PM

Title: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 02, 2023, 02:24:21 PM
Photo of the armies on the table for tomorrow evening's Tactica 2 Game between 2200pts of Ptolemaics and Seleukids. There is a Flank Boundary line of Woods along the far table edge and a Low Ridge in the Seleukid Central Sector. The actual army deployments will be different for the game at the discretion of the army commanders tomorrow.Armies in Table for Intelligence Report.jpeg
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Jim Webster on July 02, 2023, 07:58:14 PM
Now that is impressive
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 03, 2023, 09:49:32 AM
Thanks Jim.
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: dwkay57 on July 03, 2023, 05:50:18 PM
There doesn't seem to be much room for manoeuvre. Be interested to learn how and why the opposing generals come up with their tactics.
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Mark G on July 04, 2023, 05:51:40 AM
Tactica, like most of Arty Conliffe's rules, start the game at the point where the battle is just about to begin, with lines drawn and manoeuvres complete.
He takes the view that most battles were by agreement and we're head on and face to face.

So the movement is within that limit, rather than the more sweeping dramatic stuff of some other sets.

There is a subtlety within that to look for, but you have to work at your plan to get it, as you generally have 4 moves before the lines engage.

And as movement is quite restricted- very limited turning and wheeling - generally for post melee breakthroughs, to newcomers it looks pretty head on.  Much as grid games do too, until you get into the game itself and start to see the possibilities.

It makes attempting movement based plans harder, but more rewarding when they come off, and when your opponent starts to try one, you've generally got to anticipate a reaction immediately or get caught by it with nothing you can do because you weren't watching the enemy properly. 
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 04, 2023, 07:46:19 AM
it does look impressive

re the mechanics, that would work for an awful lot of battles in my head anyway
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 04, 2023, 08:08:08 AM
Thanks for your comments gents. The games are actually pretty dynamic (certainly in parts) with Infantry moving 8" and Cavalry 12" per Turn. In this game, the Ptolemies won because a big gap opened up on the right end of the Seleukid line when their Elephant screen was drawn off to the right in an attempt to stop from being outflanked AND the small Gallic Mercernary unit Pursued the 2 Ptolemaic elephants is defeated in combat. This gap was exploited by a unit of Cleruch Cavalry lancers who charge d through it and into the Rear of the Phalanx. This was effectively 'game over' but there was much stubborn fighting nonetheless.
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 04, 2023, 10:57:18 AM
Great shots
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 04, 2023, 11:57:16 AM
Dave, Thanks. Have you seen my Episodes 1 to 5 of the Tactica 2 battle summary reports (.pdfs) I submitted for consideration  for inclusion in Slingshot yet? (versions 2)
Cheers
Simon
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Mark G on July 04, 2023, 02:47:14 PM
Do I detect the flaw in the Seleucid plan from the photos?

Was Graham allowed a say in the Seleucid planning?
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 04, 2023, 05:01:43 PM
Mark, I couldn't possibly comment. Simon.  :)
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Justin Swanton on July 06, 2023, 07:14:38 AM
Does Tactica 2 allow for grand tactical moves like cavalry or light troops deploying from one wing to the other? I'm minded of 2 Mantinea and Cannae.
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 06, 2023, 08:32:02 AM
Justin,

Not really. Most armies comprise 3 'Divisions' with a 'Command Radius' centred on a single 'Divisional Commander' figure. The default 'Command Radius' is 12" which can be increased by 4" for each Massed Unit in a Division above 5.

There are ways that you can do it for a scenario of course and theoretically it could be done taking a 'Division' of part of a 'Division' from one flank to the other but in most cases this would mean leaving the remainder (if any) units 'out of command' and therefore pretty defenceless (unable to move). Alexander the Great can do it with his Companions as there is a 'special rule' for him to act as an additional Division.

So whilst unlikely or 'difficult' therefore, it can be done in a limited fashion under certain circumstances. Not unhistorical really. It didn't happen often.

The use of a mobile 'Reserve' is less problematic and of course Roman Legions are more flexible. However, I would say that you would tend to have to have your opponent pretty much just sit there and watch it happen in a most passive manner. More likely would be a rapid advance to contact to take advantage of the confusion.

As Mark indicated, the Tactica 2 game tends to more reflect the situation where the battlelines are drawn up on an 'agreed' field of battle and not the situation where there is significant pre-battle manoeuvring going on.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Mark G on July 07, 2023, 12:11:58 PM
I think technically the game starts one bow shot apart, and the field is going to be maybe half a dozen shots wide, so there reallly isn't space for a grand tactical option, that was pre game
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 07, 2023, 02:11:14 PM
also nice to see a hand made rear wheel on the wall...

Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Erpingham on July 07, 2023, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: Imperial Dave on July 07, 2023, 02:11:14 PMalso nice to see a hand made rear wheel on the wall...


Cunningly converted to a clock, it seems.  Is it tricky to read, Simon?
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 07, 2023, 03:20:48 PM
Not once you have learned the technique!
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 07, 2023, 05:46:35 PM
I was a keen cyclist (I used to do over 4000miles a year) but I haven't been on my bike now since before the pandemic because my MS symptoms have worsened such that I cannot get on or off it without falling over. A friend of mine made the clock for me in recognition of my love of cycling. I have toured the Orkneys by bike, the Outer Hebrides and Mull and the Ardnamurchan peninsula and Islay and Jura as well as numerous other 'tours' including Denmark and Germany in my teens.
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Erpingham on July 07, 2023, 06:08:49 PM
Callanish on a nice day  :) I'm sorry you can't cycle any more Simon. It looks like you'd have given Jon Freitag a run for his money back in the day  :)   I do hope you are still getting out there by other means.
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: simonw on July 07, 2023, 06:50:16 PM
Anthony,

Thanks.

Simon

P.S. One has to seek out one's salvation with diligence. Accept what you can't change and conquer ambition and desire. All life is suffering. Be good and kind to others and do no evil and you will find the path to contentment and enlightenment!  :)

Siddartha Gotama (kind of)  :)
Title: Re: TACTICA 2 Seleukids v Ptolemaics
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 07, 2023, 09:08:00 PM
A fellow cyclist. I am fortunate to still be in the saddle