Carthaginians, anything new?

[Anton]

I've decided to refurbish my 15mm Carthaginians.  I have Duncan's book from first time round and that will once more be my guide.   I've also bought some new Forged in Battle figures.  The latter set me thinking.  They are very nice figures and baring some bearded Spanish Generals look as I expected.  Perhaps they are Carthaginian officers?

Anyhow, in terms of painting the army is there anything new I should be aware of?

[Duncan Head]

Ah, there's a question... I have twice tried to write a book on Carthaginians and failed to complete it, partly because I now can't make up my mind about things like the development of heavy infantry equipment. You can see a few thoughts about Carthies in the preface to the revised 2016 AMPW, visible online here for those who don't mind cheating. But not much of that affects painting.

The reference therein to Numidian goatskin tunics is expanded on in a short article I wrote about the appearance of Numidian cavalry in Ancient Warfare magazine, and is reflected in https://www.relicminiatures.com/product/numidian-cavalry/ though not as far as I know in any 15mm figures.

There is now a probably-Punic helmet from the Egadi Islands wrecks, though I have not seen a restored version and you can't make out too much from photos of the helmet as it was pulled out of the sea.

The Osprey book The Carthaginians has some splendid colour plates, though I disagree with a lot of his interpretations (he puts far too much faith in Silius Italicus). Probably worth getting to inspire your painting.

[Anton]

Thanks Duncan that's all very helpful.  Thirty years.. It makes you think.  Red shoes for the Numidians too.

[Duncan Head]

Well, one of the two Louvre terracottas has reddish boots, the one who may be a leader. The other one's barefoot. So bare feet are still OK for the bulk of your Numidians.

[Jim Webster]

Well, one of the two Louvre terracottas has reddish boots, the one who may be a leader. The other one's barefoot. So bare feet are still OK for the bulk of your Numidians.

red shoes!
Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore

[shaun holdsworth]

Dam more changes to the Carthaginians should have finished them 20 years ago when info still relevant, Anybody know where go get a good up to date range of 15mm Carthos from ?

[Anton]

Got it, don't overdo the red shoes.


I have just bought a fair few from Forged in Battle.  I think they might be the best out there at the moment.  In size they fit with Essex or QRF, smaller horses though.  Some of the new QRF stuff is very good I'm thinking of their Gauls and Spanish.  Corvus Belli are very nice too but I'm not sure if they have had their plastic incarnation yet.

[shaun holdsworth]

PSC s CBs not out yet but I hope the Spanish and Libyan spears have separate shields so in with a fighting chance of getting close to new info.

[Anton]

Can you expand on the shields issue Shaun?

[shaun holdsworth]

The new thinking is that the Libyan infantry may have had Scuta/thurois shields , before Hannibal,s upgrade poss. for the Spanish campain of Hasdrubal

[nikgaukroger]

Seem to recall that Duncan had said something about that idea being unlikely now as the evidence for it wasn't quite what was thought.

[Jim Webster]

I think the idea is that the use of a 'rectangular' single grip shield demanded different techniques to the use of a round double grip shield like a hoplon

The argument being that the fact that the Africans at Cannae were identical to Romans (Polybius says "The armour of the Libyans was Roman, for Hannibal had armed them with a selection of the spoils taken in previous battles." Livy says, "You might fancy that the Africans were for the most part a body of Romans from the way they were armed, they were so completely equipped with the arms, some of which they had taken at the Trebia, but the most part at Trasumennus.") meant they had to be using 'Roman' shields (as the shield would be the most prominent thing you'd see)
There was a feeling that you wouldn't try to retrain your infantry in the middle of a campaign when they could be called upon to fight at any time.

[Duncan Head]

Seem to recall that Duncan had said something about that idea being unlikely now as the evidence for it wasn't quite what was thought.

More or less the opposite: there are now slight hints that the oval shield may have been in use before Hannibal invaded Italy, for instance the shields on shipboard in Punic Spanish coins.

[Jim Webster]

Seem to recall that Duncan had said something about that idea being unlikely now as the evidence for it wasn't quite what was thought.

More or less the opposite: there are now slight hints that the oval shield may have been in use before Hannibal invaded Italy, for instance the shields on shipboard in Punic Spanish coins.

On a quick search of the auction sites I found two, one from Gades and one from Cathago Nova

[nikgaukroger]

Seem to recall that Duncan had said something about that idea being unlikely now as the evidence for it wasn't quite what was thought.

More or less the opposite: there are now slight hints that the oval shield may have been in use before Hannibal invaded Italy, for instance the shields on shipboard in Punic Spanish coins.

I'm obviously confusing it with something else - I even just remember asking you about this a while back and your answer clearly says oval shield use is possible before Italy