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I know its off topic but I agree with Doug re the restrictions. My wife and I have worked from home for the past 15 months, havent been on public transport, wear masks and keep the 2 metre distance thing going etc. we've also had our 2 jabs but you wont get me to go to any social gathering or a workplace for that matter for love nor money and I cant see that changing much for the foreseeable....and fwiw we felt the same this time last year when apparently it was all over and 'isnt Christmas going to be great' etc....

Incidentally, after posting last night I've been advised my nephew, who we are very close to, and who was here for lunch and drinks on Saturday, has tested positive. So we will be self isolating for the next 10 days.

Anyone who thinks this is all over needs to give themselves a wake up call.

My post disappeared and I am not going to type it again so to summarise

Getting into an area that is not for forum debate in my opinion but

At the current death rate my unhealthy diet is more of a risk of me dying prematurely

It will never be over , at some point we will have to live with it

The world is full of risks to life that we accept without thought

Quote from: Dave Knight on June 10, 2021, 07:58:54 AM
My post disappeared and I am not going to type it again so to summarise

Getting into an area that is not for forum debate in my opinion but

At the current death rate my unhealthy diet is more of a risk of me dying prematurely

It will never be over , at some point we will have to live with it

The world is full of risks to life that we accept without thought

Ok, my dog walker is isolating as her husband is positive, my nephew is now confirmed positive, our regional hospital is looking for nursing volunteers for Covid work in expectation of a third wave, cases are again over 6000 daily, so I'm not taking stupid risks. Yes the world is full of risks, but if someone tells me the river has crocodiles then I can make a choice not to get in, regardless of what everyone else is doing.

I'm with Holly on this one. I think so many people are desperate to take holidays and go out for drinks and a meal, they are ignoring very real dangers. It's all feeling very 'eat out to help out' and 'all sorted by Christmas' boosterism. It was all over in July 2020 remember? So it feels very Groundhog Day to me. Each time, perhaps the wave recedes a little further, but for me it's still not a safe distance.

The reaIity for shows is that for a lot of people like myself and Dave, and a lot of players I know, we won't be taking unnecessary risks by attending. Some shows will fold I think. Some clubs also rely heavily on income from shows for funding, so that is definitely an issue some folk will be thinking about.

it's a really bad situation all round for shows and clubs as Doug says. I for one would like to see everyone immunised before we start thinking about 'going back to normal' (whatever that is going forward). I personally would write off 2021 for this reason to allow the whole immunisation process to go through to completion and reset in 2022. But that's just an opinion and I can only speak for myself.

(also FWIW my first degree was in molecular biology and genetics so I understand quite a bit of the background science to the pandemic etc) 

Quote from: aligern on June 09, 2021, 08:23:29 PM
Shows perform a vital function. Traders use them to meet customers and to show products.  If someone is launching a business in the market its a huge advantage to sell some figures to the punters because , hopefully, they will go on tompurchase the rest of the army from that trader.  Of course you can launch a wargames business just on a mail order basis, but tgat's cutting off a sales channel and losing thevadvantage of dealing with the person face to face.
Roy

A fair point, though I've seen plenty of articles and comments by traders saying the economics increasingly don't stack up and they are cutting the number of shows attended etc.  Those economics will be worse in an event with reduced footfall. 

Not really the place to discuss wider pandemic issues but , if we look at impacts specifically on our wargames show model, we do have to take it into account.  As Doug and Dave have both said, lots of people will be wary for quite a while of entering a crowded, jostling space with poor ventilation and not a hope of keeping 1 metre plus social distances, even if everyone is wearing masks.  So, we do need to look at alternative ways of doing stuff.  The competition side of things I doubt will be an issue - levels of mixing, distancing etc.  are probably better than indoor dining and many folks are comfortable with that.  But the trading side is different.

I've thought about whether you could do shows in the same way as some of the concert experiments, with a lateral flow test approach, but I think it will be too much logistically for what are hobbyist volunteer staff to manage.  Timed entrance, like they use in museums and galleries, might be easier, with pre-booking essential.  It would mean reduced attendence but pre-booking isn't actually a big logistical stretch (pre-pandemic, I was used enough to booking onto events through eventbrite, which wasn't difficult for organisers to set up, for example).

well on a related matter, I have done my bit last year and this year to help keep the wargaming hobby afloat with my purchases 

I am relieved that Doug, in his potentially plague-ridden state, will not be attending a show near me in the near future.  However, as he points out, this disease will not be going away any time soon, which means we need to live with it, and that includes holding wargames shows.  I mean, cases of MERS (with a mortality of 34%) still occur in the Middle East and elsewhere, yet no one suggests we should abstain from enjoying ourselves as a result, even in Saudi Arabia.  Incidentally, case numbers cited on Wikipedia are only those with a positive test and cases diagnosed by other means are significantly higher.

To the best of my knowledge, neither Doug nor I have any medical qualifications higher than a first-aid certificate. However, having been in Guangzhou during 2003 when people were attempting to rescue their relatives from the House of Death (aka Sun Yat Sen Memorial Hospital) and in Saudi during the 2013-19 MERS outbreaks, I probably have more experience than most in living through these diseases.

Presently, a number of mass, unmasked sporting events and raves have taken place with attendees testing before and after.  These have demonstrated that havng lots of people, sans-PPE in an enclosed space are not the super-spreader events that some feared.  I do not believe a wargames show would be any riskier than these rigorously monitored events.  On the contrary, evidence suggest that at least one class of the major UK Covid infections are the quarantine centres ostensibly established to protect us from travellers bringing in the disease from elsewhere.  This should come as no surprise as Australia has had several lockdowns due to spread from such petri dishes and even as early as March 2020 the Diamond Princess showed the inherent dangers in applying such medieval containment strategies.

Of course, if anyone still feels unsafe, by all means bolt the doors and retreat under your beds.  This is a matter for individual judgement or otherwise.  However, consider this.  Since 2000 there have been four new coronavirus-type diseases identified; SARS, Mexican Swine Flu, MERS and Covid-19.  This seems to indicate we can expect another one in the next 5 years or so.  I hope everyone is looking forward to this and is investing in the luxury, under-bed figure painting studio.

Cheers!     

Thanks for your input Nick. Unfortunately I am now scheduled for full testing as I have had exposure to a confirmed case, I'm in my late 50s, unfit and have had one injection so far. He second was scheduled for Saturday. It has had to be rescheduled. You'll pardon me if I take the advice of the NHS over some bloke on the Internet telling me superspreader events are little risk? I know for example, one student party here generated 36 cases from one infected person.

coronavirus is here to stay so lets deal with it sensibly and safely until everyone has been vaccinated is all I will add

Quote from: DougM on June 10, 2021, 05:33:15 PM
I know for example, one student party here generated 36 cases from one infected person.

Doug, I am glad you have received your first jab and I hope your forthcoming test proves negative.  Regarding your comment above, I was not thinking of informal and unregulated social events, but more the official sort of events, such as the recent gig held in Sefton where attendees took a test prior to entry and a couple of tests afterwards.  This strategy has also been used at several recent football matches and I see no reason why it could not be applied to wargames shows.

QuoteThis strategy has also been used at several recent football matches and I see no reason why it could not be applied to wargames shows.

You do need to look at the logistics of it Nick.  How possible is it for a club-led event to deliver on this?  Perhaps some of the big events but many smaller events would struggle, I think.

agreed logistics will be a nightmare.....

Quote from: Holly on June 10, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
well on a related matter, I have done my bit last year and this year to help keep the wargaming hobby afloat with my purchases 

Well done! -  and another positive note might be that some traders who attend shows but have no web presence or abysmal ones, may want to expand their channels.

Personally, my purchases this year have been quite restrained (by comparison to other years), and the 3d printer is keeping costs down, by letting me print some stuff I would otherwise have bought. (Or not..)  - but restrained mainly because I have so much in the unpainted pile I should try to catch up a bit.

Purchased 2021
14 x 28mm Cavalry
4 x 28mm AFV
127 x 28mm Infantry

Completed 2021
3 x 28mm M/C Combo & M/C
4 x 28mm Gun & Crew
43 x 28mm AFV
158 x 28mm Infantry