Title: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: ancientone on July 27, 2021, 03:12:36 PM
Post by: ancientone on July 27, 2021, 03:12:36 PM
On going through my DBA 3 army came across II/84 African Vandal and the possible army of Knights ,purchased from Essex the same and found a good assortment of figures some a bit Norman'ist,but still good. Has always some research is needed first port of call the WRG Armies & Enemies and 117 in Imperial Rome book not alot here withGthicor Vandal Heavy Cavalryman which alot of Essex figures are based on .I have just purchased but not yet read my SOA booklet " The Goths" and so 2 colour plates give some Gothic background, and great to have sections on Dress & appearance Tunic,Trousers,Cloak,accessories etc. So started painting
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 27, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 27, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
its a nice army...
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: Duncan Head on July 27, 2021, 04:22:49 PM
Post by: Duncan Head on July 27, 2021, 04:22:49 PM
For the African Vandals, there is a reconstruction in Roy Boss, Justinian's Wars (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Justinians-Wars-Belisarius-Narses-Reconquest/dp/1874101019/), though it's expensive to get hold of these days. The rider mosaics (https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1967-0405-18) from the Vandal kingdom are one of the main sources for clothing.
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 27, 2021, 04:53:38 PM
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 27, 2021, 04:53:38 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on July 27, 2021, 04:22:49 PM
For the African Vandals, there is a reconstruction in Roy Boss, Justinian's Wars (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Justinians-Wars-Belisarius-Narses-Reconquest/dp/1874101019/), though it's expensive to get hold of these days. The rider mosaics (https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1967-0405-18) from the Vandal kingdom are one of the main sources for clothing.
I've still got mine....maybe I should put it on ebay!
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: Duncan Head on July 27, 2021, 05:09:48 PM
Post by: Duncan Head on July 27, 2021, 05:09:48 PM
I've still got a copy, too - I'm wondering if I should start making a list for my executors of books that might fetch a particularly good price.
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 27, 2021, 05:13:27 PM
Post by: Imperial Dave on July 27, 2021, 05:13:27 PM
indubitably...especially at the rate you read books Duncan!
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: ancientone on July 28, 2021, 05:14:30 PM
Post by: ancientone on July 28, 2021, 05:14:30 PM
Quote from: ancientone on July 27, 2021, 03:12:36 PM
On going through my DBA 3 army came across II/84 African Vandal and the possible army of Knights ,purchased from Essex the same and found a good assortment of figures some a bit Norman'ist,but still good. Has always some research is needed first port of call the WRG Armies & Enemies and 117 in Imperial Rome book not alot here with Gothic / Vandal Heavy Cavalryman which alot of Essex figures are based on .I have just purchased but not yet read my SOA booklet " The Goths" and so 2 colour plates give some Gothic background, and great to have sections on Dress & appearance Tunic,Trousers,Cloak,accessories etc. So started painting with the Goths/Vandals going into African I have given some sheilds animal faces from my VVV transfers,not sure of colours for sheilds but looking at SOA Goths seem muted ,cloaks blue checked and beige maybe,horse colours chestnut ,Dun, Roan,some ink washed with intense chestnut gives a good look.Given dry bruhing to horse tail and manes,so moving to basing done by mixing some of the Essex figures still with 2 javelins with others some no type in groups.General a problem as I think he always needs a flag or standard so you can spot him on the gaming table,as I some times miss the plus 1.So mine as a yellow forked tailed flag as I have not a clue what African Vandals used.Near the end now basing done mix of yellow & brown Crawford & Black from the "Works" store with static grass flocks & sand from bag of childens play sand very fine.Hope to get historical enemies to DBA with have II/57 Later Moorish so chance next Wednesday at EMHG to see how they fair will let you know.Not very well is the answer the Moors had 3 DHills & wood so double depth LH and my dice was terrible,in both games.Lesson for Knights don't throw lots of ones against LH.May do better against Western Romans ,Did'nt get western Romans ,but Nike Byzantines so not true history but they had a great game with a swirling left flank ,finally defeating the Byzantine Cav 4-3 my dice did improve
Quote from: Holly on July 27, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
its a nice army...
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: aligern on July 29, 2021, 12:54:04 PM
Post by: aligern on July 29, 2021, 12:54:04 PM
They are fine ancient one.The thoughts I'd have on Vandals are:
They are formed from a mix of Vandals and Alans, so you might have some late Sarmatian types in the mix. Needless to say they would be in distinct groups. Now it may be that when the merger took place the Vandals converted to rwo handed contos use and dropped tge shield except for dismounted work. ( Possible)
Its likely that arms and armour were state issue, or at the very least deficiencies were made good centrally before a campaign. That would suggest a lot had quite uniform Late Roman oattern kit. I would suggest that even common shield designs for small units. The army emerged from Carthage to fight at Ad Decimum in such small units .
Top chaps had their own armourers ( from Victor of Vita) and would have looked very fancy, gilded and plumed.
Clothing is as Duncan says based on the mosaics. There was a choice of two styles, long Gothic style tunics and wide trousers with embroidery round the bottom of the trousers and onnthe yoke and cuffs of the tunic, or a more Romanised style with knee breeches and separate coverings for the lower legs. They may also have worn thin leather black boots to the knee.
Roy
They are formed from a mix of Vandals and Alans, so you might have some late Sarmatian types in the mix. Needless to say they would be in distinct groups. Now it may be that when the merger took place the Vandals converted to rwo handed contos use and dropped tge shield except for dismounted work. ( Possible)
Its likely that arms and armour were state issue, or at the very least deficiencies were made good centrally before a campaign. That would suggest a lot had quite uniform Late Roman oattern kit. I would suggest that even common shield designs for small units. The army emerged from Carthage to fight at Ad Decimum in such small units .
Top chaps had their own armourers ( from Victor of Vita) and would have looked very fancy, gilded and plumed.
Clothing is as Duncan says based on the mosaics. There was a choice of two styles, long Gothic style tunics and wide trousers with embroidery round the bottom of the trousers and onnthe yoke and cuffs of the tunic, or a more Romanised style with knee breeches and separate coverings for the lower legs. They may also have worn thin leather black boots to the knee.
Roy
Title: Re: African Vandal charge of the Kn's
Post by: ancientone on July 29, 2021, 01:38:32 PM
Post by: ancientone on July 29, 2021, 01:38:32 PM
Thanks to all replies mainly Roy Boss