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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Topic started by: Erpingham on September 15, 2024, 11:06:44 AM

Title: Are impetuous Templars another medieval myth?
Post by: Erpingham on September 15, 2024, 11:06:44 AM
That is certainly the argument of Prof. Nicholas Morton in this article (https://www.medievalists.net/2024/09/knights-templar-battle-fanatics-pragmatists/).  Impetuosity has always sat awkwardly alongside the professional discipline of the Templar rule, I feel.  But I'm no Crusades scholar.
Title: Re: Are impetuous Templars another medieval myth?
Post by: Nick Harbud on September 15, 2024, 12:12:42 PM
Yeah, a lot of modern stuff about the Crusader states and the military orders is very slanted against bone-headed knights, a sort of medieval 'lions led by donkeys' approach that may have its origins in British Army performance of the 20th century.  I mean, everyone focuses on Cresson rather than Montgisard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Montgisard) that took place 10 years earlier.  In this battle a similarly bold attack by Gerard de Ridefort and Reynald de Châtillon led to the destruction of 90% of Saladin's army.

For a more robust view of this period, one could read Jeffrey Lee's book God's Wolf (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gods-Wolf-Notorious-Crusaders-Chatillon/dp/1782399283/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2VJRDE2CEFG7C&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4bDHaGaKduPkhFAa48TKzM7ipv_5SJAxmWCdD1BYggJawZ6U_2LdBNS81EiIr55XtFDLXZzU4ELHRPWoF2TdzB1Ge9IANlFBC7hchnxHx1rbaZ9G6OwZ7J0g2NGnqRM48ikvQOiIl3W5c_wWb_7ywgxjE9keXr8lh8jevSHM_i0JU9YJiKs_LM_cDaYRlMp7kj3HsXjc83XKKTBL_3vTy3ckqRYGVUzgpL3phQ1A8_E.ebAnEgkGoCxsyFDf-80J-_7v5bAPfQY2Os1ezrVA8WQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=gods+wolf&qid=1726398166&sprefix=gods+wolf%2Caps%2C87&sr=8-1).

:P
Title: Re: Are impetuous Templars another medieval myth?
Post by: Cantabrigian on September 16, 2024, 06:16:01 AM
Quote from: Nick Harbud on September 15, 2024, 12:12:42 PMYeah, a lot of modern stuff about the Crusader states and the military orders is very slanted against bone-headed knights, a sort of medieval 'lions led by donkeys' approach that may have its origins in British Army performance of the 20th century.

I don't think that it's even a very helpful approach to understanding the First World War.  It's really just the corollary of the "Great Man" theory of history.
Title: Re: Are impetuous Templars another medieval myth?
Post by: Erpingham on September 16, 2024, 10:55:20 AM
I think the author of the article is attempting to move us beyond the cliche of "bone-headed knights".  The Master of one of the military orders wasn't some dashing glory seeking paladin.  He wasn't just a soldier, he was an experienced administrator, politician and diplomat. His qualities in these other roles may have been more important in his selection.  The idea that Ridefort was an experienced but conventional commander who made errors of judgement leading to disaster, rather than a foaming-at-the-mouth fanatic, is an interesting perspective, I feel.