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History => Ancient and Medieval History => Ancient & Medieval Battles => Topic started by: Imperial Dave on November 20, 2024, 06:02:59 AM

Title: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 20, 2024, 06:02:59 AM
https://greekreporter.com/2024/11/19/battle-himera-ancient-greece-victory-carthage-dominance-mediterranean/

Hopefully of passing interest...
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Keraunos on November 23, 2024, 12:26:32 PM
Of more than passing interest.  It is good to see events in the Western Mediterranean being linked with those further east. 

What is depressing is the headline and conclusion repeating the old trope about battles changing history, assuming that we know which way history is going before it hit a bump on the road.  We humans are extremely bad at predicting what the future is going to be and it never seems sensible to me to assume we can claim any knowledge of which way history would have gone if only it hadn't! 
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 23, 2024, 12:35:27 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Ian61 on November 23, 2024, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: Keraunos on November 23, 2024, 12:26:32 PMOf more than passing interest.  It is good to see events in the Western Mediterranean being linked with those further east. 

What is depressing is the headline and conclusion repeating the old trope about battles changing history, assuming that we know which way history is going before it hit a bump on the road.  We humans are extremely bad at predicting what the future is going to be and it never seems sensible to me to assume we can claim any knowledge of which way history would have gone if only it hadn't! 
Wise words. Of course it is easy to forget the bigger picture of the Carthaginians being Phoecian and therefore having ties to events and actors to the East of the Mediterranean world.
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Duncan Head on November 23, 2024, 01:07:42 PM
We do already have a thread on Himera in the Ancient Battles forum, if anyone wants to check out the sources:

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=250.0
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Adrian Nayler on November 23, 2024, 02:07:04 PM
I've added this information to Duncan's post linked to above. Perhaps it may be of interest?

Recent excavation revealed burials of what is thought to be 'Greeks' killed at Himera. Further scientific studies suggest that the origins of the deceased were varied and not at all local. This has been interpreted potentially as indicating 'mercenaries' in the Greek forces.

Isotopic evidence for geographic heterogeneity in Ancient Greek military forces

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0248803

The diverse genetic origins of a Classical period Greek army

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2205272119#:~:text=Most%20Himerans%20associated%20with%20the,and%20fifth%2Dcentury%2DBCE%20Greek

Adrian.
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Imperial Dave on November 23, 2024, 02:22:29 PM
Quote from: Duncan Head on November 23, 2024, 01:07:42 PMWe do already have a thread on Himera in the Ancient Battles forum, if anyone wants to check out the sources:

https://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=250.0

What a memory
Title: Re: The battle of Himera 480 BC
Post by: Erpingham on November 23, 2024, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: Imperial Dave on November 23, 2024, 02:22:29 PMWhat a memory

As Duncan wrote it, its not entirely surprising he remembered doing so  :)