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Gaming => Players Seeking Players => Topic started by: Justin Swanton on April 17, 2020, 02:50:03 PM

Title: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 17, 2020, 02:50:03 PM
After years developing Optio I am finally satisfied it has reached the point where the mechanisms have settled down and it is necessary to subject it to serious playtesting. (though Patrick and several others had helped me playtest it quite extensively in the past).

I am busy creating a VASSAL module - Optio really suits VASSAL - and am happy to walk anyone through the game module.

I can also supply the ruleset as a pdf or ebook for potential playtesters to decide if it's their thing or not. If after a once-over you decide it isn't your thing, that's fine.

The idea is to start with small, quick games and try out the basic play mechanisms, and depending on how those go, slowly graduate to larger games. Optio has a few army lists of its own but by and large it will be using lists of other gaming systems like DBA.

A word of warning: Optio is really not like any gaming system you are already familiar with. Command and control, the orders system, unit organisation, combat, combat factors and victory conditions are rather different from the regular run of popular sets, so there will be the need to grasp a few new concepts.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: RichT on April 17, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I'd certainly be interested in having a look.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 17, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
moi aussi but only as a solo run through fro obvious reasons if thats valid....?
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 18, 2020, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: RichT on April 17, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I'd certainly be interested in having a look.

Great, Richard. Would you like the rules as a pdf or ebook? An ebook is probably better for a handheld device whilst a pdf is fine for a PC monitor.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 18, 2020, 12:47:34 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 17, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
moi aussi but only as a solo run through fro obvious reasons if thats valid....?

Fine Dave. Give me a couple of days (hopefully) to complete the module. How do you want the rules? Ebook or pdf?
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 18, 2020, 08:19:20 AM
PDF for me Justin and thanks
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 18, 2020, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: Holly on April 18, 2020, 08:19:20 AM
PDF for me Justin and thanks

OK, I've sent you links to the ruleset and reference sheet.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 18, 2020, 03:08:16 PM
thanks Justin
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: RichT on April 18, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 18, 2020, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: RichT on April 17, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I'd certainly be interested in having a look.

Great, Richard. Would you like the rules as a pdf or ebook? An ebook is probably better for a handheld device whilst a pdf is fine for a PC monitor.


PDF please. I've also got Vassal ready to go.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 18, 2020, 05:08:57 PM
looks like I may have to buy a new laptop next week.........!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 18, 2020, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: RichT on April 18, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on April 18, 2020, 12:46:48 AM
Quote from: RichT on April 17, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
I'd certainly be interested in having a look.

Great, Richard. Would you like the rules as a pdf or ebook? An ebook is probably better for a handheld device whilst a pdf is fine for a PC monitor.


PDF please. I've also got Vassal ready to go.

Here's a link (https://www.dropbox.com/s/33skyi1mnlpgx14/Optio%20Ruleset.pdf?dl=0) to the ruleset and another link (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yi06xn4mboyhscg/DBA-to-Optio%20Reference%20Sheet.pdf?dl=0) to a reference sheet for use with DBA lists. I'm working on the Vassal module - will send it to you once it's done.

Edit: I've slightly modified the reference sheet and updated the link accordingly.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Chuck the Grey on April 20, 2020, 03:07:31 AM
Thanks for the link to the PDF copy of Optio Justin. I've successfully download the files and hope to give a read thorough this week and maybe even a small game (solo of course) to get a handle on the rules.  ;)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 20, 2020, 06:43:42 AM
Quote from: Chuck the Grey on April 20, 2020, 03:07:31 AM
Thanks for the link to the PDF copy of Optio Justin. I've successfully download the files and hope to give a read thorough this week and maybe even a small game (solo of course) to get a handle on the rules.  ;)

Great. I'm having a couple of headaches creating the module. Let me say by the weekend I'll have something to pass on.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 20, 2020, 10:14:56 AM
I am definitely liking the rules so far Justin. well laid out and explained which for me means pretty pictures!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on April 24, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
The Vassal module is coming along nicely. Here is a screenshot of a hoplite phalanx deployed for battle, led at the right by its intrepid general. Just need to complete terrain pieces and some player aids and another couple of army lists (which should be quick now that the prototypes are done).

(https://i.imgur.com/rWBn5pR.jpg)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on April 24, 2020, 05:36:14 PM
wow that looks really good Justin. I would also like to comment that the Vassal system is on appearances really well suited to Optio because of the visual markers required
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 14, 2020, 08:43:55 AM
Just an update for those who wondered what happened to the Vassal module. I've completed the artwork for 10 armies: Achaemenid Persian, Hoplite Greek, Macedonian, Seleucid, Gallic, Spanish, Numidian, Carthaginian, Early Republican Roman and Polybian Roman. Most of the terrain is also done. I'm now creating the combat tables. There is a mammoth master table for all armies (every troop type vs every troop type) from which I create army-specific tables (e.g. Polybian Roman vs Greek). This is not quite as much work as it sounds but still has been a bit of work. The idea behind army specific combat tables is that they absorb most combat modifiers found in other rulesets, leaving you with a short list that is easy to memorize. I am pulling out all the stops to design a gaming system for mentally lazy players.  ::)

The ruleset along with the army lists and combat tables will be published as a pdf and/or ebook that will be usable on any device. The Vassal module will of course be offered free and will undergo indefinite development as I add further armies.

Some pics this evening.

PS: Since most Ancients rulesets have about 200 armies you might be wondering how I plan to create 40 000-odd army specific combat tables. Answer is I won't. I'll create generic troop types for the army lists, rather like DBx, and then make up a single big table for those (split into three sub-tables: mounted vs mounted, mounted vs foot and foot vs foot). In other words it will be a coarse-grained combat table. The army specific tables - more fine-grained - will only be for select army lists, i.e. armies that were contemporary and actually fought each other.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 14, 2020, 05:00:47 PM
Here are a couple of images of the WIP.

A sampling of terrain. A river courses past some forest then scattered woodland and then past marshland and broken ground. It bends at a vineyard and continues past more scattered woodland.

(https://i.imgur.com/uhdN3uE.jpg)


The master combat table for the 10 Vassal armies.

(https://i.imgur.com/OtGyZpk.png)


And an army specific table - Greek Hoplite vs Achaemenid Persian in this case.

(https://i.imgur.com/mOR5VC2.png)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Chuck the Grey on May 15, 2020, 02:35:50 AM
All I can say is WOW! ;D
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Prufrock on May 15, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Yes, looks great!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 15, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
Fancy playtesting, chaps?
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on May 15, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
am still reading the ruleset Justin too.....just conscious that I have been quiet on this front recently!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Prufrock on May 15, 2020, 03:22:23 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on May 15, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
Fancy playtesting, chaps?

Sorry Justin, no time or energy at the moment!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 16, 2020, 12:51:16 PM
Quote from: Prufrock on May 15, 2020, 03:22:23 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on May 15, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
Fancy playtesting, chaps?

Sorry Justin, no time or energy at the moment!

:'(

Your first day of retirement is booked.  ;)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 18, 2020, 09:38:56 AM
A quick update: I've mostly done the 100 army-specific combat tables and am uploading them to the module. I just need to create large river and coastal terrain, do up a combat modifier chart (for things like uphill, defending riverbank, etc.) and the module is good to go. File size is about 150MB which is nothing compared to a typical PC game. Give me a couple more days...
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Chris on May 21, 2020, 02:26:16 PM
Well done and congrats! Impressive!

Looking forward to reading and perhaps seeing more about this in specific threads, in Slingshot, or perhaps, just perhaps, in a Youtube tutorial or tutorials.

Cheers,
Chris
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 24, 2020, 04:53:38 PM
I've finally finished the module! File size 160MB. I've uploaded it to dropbox. Richard and Dave, I'll send you the link. A screenshot of a couple of Polybian legions facing off against some Spanish on a hill. A river with a ford on the right flanked by forest, marshland and some vineyards, with a stream near the bottom. Anyone else interested?

(https://i.imgur.com/arvOp41.jpg)





Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on May 24, 2020, 04:57:57 PM
holy moly Justin.....thats a lot of work
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 24, 2020, 05:14:37 PM
Quote from: Holly on May 24, 2020, 04:57:57 PM
holy moly Justin.....thats a lot of work

It was a fair bit.  :) Here are a few more screenshots.

This shows troop attributes. Right click on any base and a popup menu appears showing what you can do with the unit. There are keyboard shortcuts to facilitate things.

(https://i.imgur.com/DivvgMt.jpg)

Combat tables are popup charts that appear when you click the Combat Tables button at the top.

(https://i.imgur.com/RFbEhNV.jpg)

Then the Combat Modifiers chart.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ygi9Eky.jpg)

Terrain Effects chart.

(https://i.imgur.com/2CisKLx.jpg)

You create armies by opening the armies and terrain window, clicking the appropriate army tab and dragging the units onto the battlefield. Terrain works the same way but you need to place terrain pieces before army units. They are not selectable after being placed unless you use shift + click. Terrain pieces snap to the square grid but unit pieces are free moving. There's even a die you can throw!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on May 24, 2020, 10:23:44 PM
I am in awe....I am not worthy.....
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 25, 2020, 05:27:29 AM
Quote from: Holly on May 24, 2020, 10:23:44 PM
I am in awe....I am not worthy.....

No wriggling out of it.  ;)

Let me do up that pdf showing how the game works and I'll send it to you asap. To go with for now: start the module. Select 'New Game.' Then choose the 'Solitaire' option. Then time to create the battlefield. It consists of sections measuring 8 squares by 8 squares. Choose 'Battlefield' then add a column. For the second column choose 'Side Panel' then click on Next. If you like you can add additional columns (and rows) and put in more battlefield sections for a bigger battlefield.

That takes you to a small battlefield and you can see the various buttons above. Choose 'Armies/Terrain' and then 'Terrain.' Terrain is subdivided into hills, woods, river, etc. Hills subdivide into difficult and easy, woods into forest and scattered woodland, and so on. Put the mouse pointer in the area to the left of the terrain name and drag onto the battlefield. The terrain piece will appear on one of the squares. Terrain pieces snap to squares. You can rotate most of them (except forest, scattered woodland and broken ground). Once you deselect a terrain piece you can only reselect it by holding Shift + click.

Then drag army units on the battlefield the same way. They do not snap to the grid squares but move freely. They can always be selected by a click once deselected. Right click on an army piece to see what you can do with it. The piece can be given a coloured border to indicate which command it belongs to. Generals are given a coloured background to indicate their command. Disorder shows the troops higgledy-piggledy and then back to orderly again. Shot indicates the unit, if missile capable, has already fired that player's move (one can shoot at any moment in either player's turn so it's useful to know if a unit has already shot or not). Morale is used to set the base's morale calibre (it runs from low to high) and then the loss of morale during a game). Missile hits shows how many missile hits the unit has received thus far. when it reaches black the unit drops one interval on the morale scale.

The side panel is used to indicate the course of a turn - go to 'Player Aids' and drag the Turn Marker onto the First Player Normal Movement square - and record the loss of units during the game (necessary to determine panic hits).

The die, also in 'Player Aids' can be dragged onto the battlefield and thrown to give a random number.

But I'll cover all this in detail later.

Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on May 25, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
right...well in that case....I wont wriggle out of it  ;)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on May 31, 2020, 08:50:21 AM
Quote from: Holly on May 25, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
right...well in that case....I wont wriggle out of it  ;)

Dave and I are currently playing Optio's official first online game. I feel a bit like Elon Musk - cross all fingers and toes...and it works! We are trying out a game in real time, bit of a learning tutorial really. The serious bloodshed will come later.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on May 31, 2020, 09:03:28 PM
Quote from: Justin Swanton on May 31, 2020, 08:50:21 AM
Quote from: Holly on May 25, 2020, 10:31:26 AM
right...well in that case....I wont wriggle out of it  ;)

Dave and I are currently playing Optio's official first online game. I feel a bit like Elon Musk - cross all fingers and toes...and it works! We are trying out a game in real time, bit of a learning tutorial really. The serious bloodshed will come later.

serious bloodshed not far off.....!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on June 03, 2020, 10:04:45 PM
Serious bloodshed was had by all....my Greeks suffered at the hands of Justin's Spanish. When the end came, it came swiftly!
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on June 03, 2020, 10:48:56 PM
It was touch and go, though.

We're doing Issus next - putting a couple of big, complex armies through their paces to see how Optio handles them. Dave, let me know if you're able to get the updated module to work.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on June 03, 2020, 11:14:41 PM
will do Justin. I'll have a play with it tomorrow
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Aetius on October 20, 2021, 03:41:56 PM
Hi, I would be interested in the Vassal Module and Rules if they are still available? Please send a link to both. I would gladly pay for your rules and would love to try them out. I'm have played DBA Online, DBA 3.0, Field of Glory and Field of Glory II online for many years. Your Vassal Module looks so smart I would be proud to have it...

Best Regards,
John
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on February 10, 2022, 10:27:37 PM
Quote from: Aetius on October 20, 2021, 03:41:56 PM
Hi, I would be interested in the Vassal Module and Rules if they are still available? Please send a link to both. I would gladly pay for your rules and would love to try them out. I'm have played DBA Online, DBA 3.0, Field of Glory and Field of Glory II online for many years. Your Vassal Module looks so smart I would be proud to have it...

Best Regards,
John

Hi John,

Sorry for taking such a long time to get to this. Optio is not yet published and I had rather neglected it over the past few months. I've returned to it and am revamping the VASSAL module to make it less fiddly. If you'd like to play through a few games I'd be happy to send you the module and ruleset. The module is rather large now, 624MB. Is that a problem?
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Aetius on February 12, 2022, 11:43:15 AM
My computer will have no problem handling 624 MB as long as Vassal can. Thanks...

John
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on February 13, 2022, 08:48:23 AM
OK you have the module. I'll be posting a few games on the forum. Probably an idea to have a look at them to see how the game works. I also intend to create a pdf walkthrough of the module which I'll post here shortly.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Aetius on February 13, 2022, 07:36:53 PM
You really worked hard on the module, it is even more beautiful and smart than I thought it would be. Thanks Justin...

John
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on February 14, 2022, 05:48:10 AM
Thanks John. :)  It's still WIP. I've just about finished a solo game of Leuctra which has convinced me I need alter the shooting rules for psiloi a bit: no -1 shooting modifier for being in a thin line (only one base in the battlefield square as opposed to the usual 2 bases). Skirmisher combat seems to have been generally inconclusive even when one side had more skirmishers than the other. I put this down to the fact that only front rank skirmishers could actually fire on the enemy. Having additional skirmishers in depth didn't help much - that's something that applied to massed archer formations shooting overhead. I'll send you an amended ruleset. There'll probably be quite a few more changes like this and your input here is welcome.

Let me do a couple more Leuctras and post those as well. I'll also send that walkthrough.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on February 14, 2022, 08:12:40 PM
I've just finished revamping the module (again - sorry John!) to make it visually clearer. Here's a pic of my Leuctra deployment. Spartans to the north, Thebans to the south. Full game to follow soon.

(https://i.imgur.com/nki4jTL.jpg)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Prufrock on February 15, 2022, 12:13:11 PM
That's looking really good, Justin. The board looks very clean with the square grid. Most impressive.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on February 15, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
very nice indeed Justin. Some nice chrome since I saw it in the flesh last  :)
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on February 18, 2022, 05:41:36 AM
Updating the module is taking longer than I originally expected but is nearly complete. I'll try to post a solo game report this weekend.
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Imperial Dave on February 18, 2022, 08:03:15 AM
would be interested to see how that plays out Justin
Title: Re: Optio available for playtesting
Post by: Justin Swanton on February 18, 2022, 08:16:16 AM
As a heads up I'll be doing Leuctra. No skirmishers as the game will presume the pre-battle skirmishing is done. I'm incorporating a special rule that the Spartan allies will not advance ahead of the Spartans, which means the battle will be decided on the Spartan flank (if the Thebans can dispatch the Spartan and allied cav and rout the Spartans that will cause the Spartan allies to panic as per normal panic rules, game over). My presumption is that the Sacred Band hid behind the Theban column and deployed to its left just before the two armies contacted each other in order to outflank the Spartan right - in true Spartan style. The Spartans saw this and tried extending their line to counter it, but hadn't completed the manoeuvre before the Sacred Band struck. We'll see how it goes...