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Society Offerings => Shows & Events => Topic started by: Holly on June 01, 2020, 01:17:14 PM

Title: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 01, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
As we move from phase 1 of the COVID crisis to phase 2 and seeing the beginning of a semblance of life returning to 'normal', what is the prognosis for Wargaming Shows both in the short term and medium term? For myself I am going to be pessimistic and saw that the Salute type shows for the rest of 2020 just arent going to be possible. Smaller shows even less likely as social distancing will put paid to village hall affairs unless people can adapt and oblige with the one in one out rule. Maybe 2021 will be a reset year. Not sure and we are in uncharted territory. I hope for the best but fear for the worst....
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Justin Swanton on June 01, 2020, 01:22:26 PM
I suspect - if economies hold together - that we will see the golden age of the Internet, where online tournaments and group gaming will substitute for shows and become the way forward. (this of course has nothing to do my making Optio a very pretty PC game that is so easy to play...)
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 01, 2020, 01:29:45 PM
online tournaments are the future and I have to say that Optio is proving to be very doable online.....
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on June 01, 2020, 02:20:14 PM
I suspect that we could see more online games because people have tried them and they work.
Not sure about 'online shows'
I know people who run online book fairs but I could never see the point
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Erpingham on June 01, 2020, 02:41:08 PM
I'm not a great goer to shows, for various reasons.  But it hadn't occured to me that they were primarily about taking part in competitions.  A great deal is about shopping, it seems to me, plus looking at pretty games and, for some, trying a bit of participation gaming.  Given we can shop online, there need to be lots of other aspects to make the financial and time costs of in-person interaction worth it.  I suspect these are the bits that will be most impacted by social distancing, which will make it hard to open up again soon.  If you think about, shows tend to be very crowded, with narrow walkways and crowds around tables and stalls.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Baldie on June 01, 2020, 05:58:02 PM
I guess they will be like pubs.
In theory we can have wide spaces, limited numbers etc but eventually people will mingle.

One bar, one set of toilets, que for vendors.
Bring and buy not allowed?

No way to stop you mixing realistically so I cant see em happening till we get a cure.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 01, 2020, 08:19:41 PM
sadly I wont be visiting any in the near future even when they are allowed. I normally go for the merchandise (kid in a sweet shop effect)
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Tim on June 01, 2020, 08:26:02 PM
...

No way to stop you mixing realistically so I cant see em happening till we get a cure.

I was back working in my office today. First time I have had a day working in London for 12 weeks. People were, to me, surprisingly blasé about the whole social distancing thing. I think I was the only person on the train wearing a face-mask. I suspect people will go to shows as soon as they are allowed.

As for cure, from everything I have read and from speaking to medical researchers, there has never been an effective cure or vaccination against any Covid strain and the researchers have been searching for one for decades, so don’t hold your breath.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 01, 2020, 08:28:30 PM

As for cure, from everything I have read and from speaking to medical researchers, there has never been an effective cure or vaccination against any Covid strain and the researchers have been searching for one for decades, so don’t hold your breath.

well if in a lift.....do hold your breath  :P
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on June 02, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
sadly I wont be visiting any in the near future even when they are allowed. I normally go for the merchandise (kid in a sweet shop effect)

I'm the same, I'm the other kid in the sweetshop, so I try and go to two or three a year. Not sure I'll get to any this year even if open
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on June 02, 2020, 12:49:11 PM
...

No way to stop you mixing realistically so I cant see em happening till we get a cure.

I was back working in my office today. First time I have had a day working in London for 12 weeks. People were, to me, surprisingly blasé about the whole social distancing thing. I think I was the only person on the train wearing a face-mask. I suspect people will go to shows as soon as they are allowed.

As for cure, from everything I have read and from speaking to medical researchers, there has never been an effective cure or vaccination against any Covid strain and the researchers have been searching for one for decades, so don’t hold your breath.

Judging by the way various forums are growing quieter, people are going back to work.
I've noticed that round here (I'm the one who now does the shopping) that very very few people wear masks (1% perhaps) but people are pretty good about social distancing.

The trouble is having (probably) had it (because of course back at the end of March you were only tested if you were hospitalised) I'm probably more casual that some. The world of constant handwashing and sanitiser seems infinitely far away. But then as a friend of mine commented, "Jim, with your job it's almost more important to wash before going to the toilet than afterwards  :-[

So whether I go to a show or not depends not on health risks than how bizarre the regulations are. For example, travelling two hundred miles to queue for two or more hours, socially distanced in a carpark, with an hour to go round the show before you're kicked to to let others in, doesn't really appeal.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 02, 2020, 12:51:33 PM
true....

the rise and rise of the internet beckons.....
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Denis Grey on May 31, 2021, 12:57:39 PM
The wargaming shows here in the UK are slowly being brought out of the cryogenic deep-freeze.

I saw an announcement from Magister Militum over the weekend which said they would only be attending one or two shows a year in future - presumably SALUTE and A. N. Other.  At the other end of the scale, Bad Squiddo Games, which is a one-woman - or, more precisely, a one-Dice Bag Lady - operation will also be cutting back on their (her) attendance at shows.

I wonder whether this is a trend which is likely to be repeated by others or whether it simply creates space for new enterprises to attend and - hopefully - flourish.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Dave Knight on May 31, 2021, 01:09:22 PM
There may be a slow start but things will soon get back to normal.  I have a table booked for Hammerhead at the end of July so that will be the first test.

Here in Scotland face mask wearing is pretty common but social distancing only really applies when queueing.

My work is still being pretty cagey.  I did 411 days working from home but am now going in 1 day a week. 
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on May 31, 2021, 01:26:21 PM
Purely out of interest, any idea how much a trader's table costs at a show nowadays?
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Tim on May 31, 2021, 02:20:54 PM
Not sure totally relevant but I have now completed 1 year working full time back in the office with no ill effects. Shows should be fine.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Prufrock on May 31, 2021, 03:01:12 PM
I have now completed 1 year working full time back in the office with no ill effects.

Says you!  ;D
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Denis Grey on May 31, 2021, 05:13:52 PM
Purely out of interest, any idea how much a trader's table costs at a show nowadays?

I assume it must vary from show to show - and, of course, according to how big a stall one wants - but, I understand that at some shows £90 will get you an area 6ft square, with additional 6ft squares available at the same rate.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on May 31, 2021, 08:22:56 PM
Purely out of interest, any idea how much a trader's table costs at a show nowadays?

I assume it must vary from show to show - and, of course, according to how big a stall one wants - but, I understand that at some shows £90 will get you an area 6ft square, with additional 6ft squares available at the same rate.

Thanks, it seems variable, but it's good to get a feel for
Jim
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: martin on June 05, 2021, 08:12:42 AM
Assuming we talk about 12 foot.
£80 at a small show
£180 at a  large show
£380 at a very big show.

Those "8s"  are co incidental.

I would give an opinion that shows will find it difficult to free themselves from rules  imposed by well meaning venue owners.  e.g clean all seats between each person using them.
One big venue suggested a one way system should be in place. "darn, just missed the P Pig stall, better go around again."

martin :)
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 05, 2021, 08:20:21 AM
one does wonder if the cost effectiveness works these days for shows when you factor in petrol etc for especially the smaller trader. Thats an awful lot of sales to cover the basic costs unless part of it is to get a wider audience to your relatively unknown wares
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on June 05, 2021, 10:18:33 AM
Assuming we talk about 12 foot.
£80 at a small show
£180 at a  large show
£380 at a very big show.

Those "8s"  are co incidental.

I would give an opinion that shows will find it difficult to free themselves from rules  imposed by well meaning venue owners.  e.g clean all seats between each person using them.
One big venue suggested a one way system should be in place. "darn, just missed the P Pig stall, better go around again."

martin :)

Thanks for that Martin. I agree with you about the difficulty of freeing themselves from the rules. Our village hall just hasn't reopened because with a small number of volunteers they cannot cope
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: martin on June 06, 2021, 05:46:34 PM
HelloJim
Yes a long tail of destruction.

martin ???
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on June 06, 2021, 05:55:33 PM
HelloJim
Yes a long tail of destruction.

martin ???

Whilst it's a damned nuisance for the hobby, in the case of our village hall, there was a weekly coffee morning which always had over 50 people attending and in a village with no shops, you could order off the butcher and get a delivery later in the week after discussing things with him, there was a veg stall, the fish van called and there were a couple of craft stands and similar
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 09, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
Personally, I see no sense in taking unnecessary risks, and I am not keen on getting back into an office. I just finished a year's contract, and never actually met anyone I worked with. It didn't bother me.

Our club meets in a hall that is managed by the Girl Guides. So far, no one, including the Guides, is rushing back, though new flooring, sanitisers and warnings have been installed.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on June 09, 2021, 03:56:53 PM
Personally, I see no sense in taking unnecessary risks, and I am not keen on getting back into an office. I just finished a year's contract, and never actually met anyone I worked with. It didn't bother me.

Our club meets in a hall that is managed by the Girl Guides. So far, no one, including the Guides, is rushing back, though new flooring, sanitisers and warnings have been installed.

I am finding it interesting. Because the entire agriculture industry seems to have worked normally and that includes our suppliers, feed mills, hauliers, producers of veterinary medicines etc and our customers, the dairies, slaughter houses, retail etc (slaughter houses do seem to have been hit by covid, but they keep reopening and getting on with the job).
I cannot remember the last time anybody came into our yard wearing a mask, not postmen/women or contractors and most couriers don't bother any more. I'd go bail on there being nobody this year.

A comment I heard was that agriculture we don't feel locked in, but locked out.

With regards the guides, that chimes with a comment my wife (exguider) made. She wonders how many guide and scout companies will reopen? The volunteers who ran them have escaped for 18 months. How many will pick up the burden again or will they regard it as a chance to retire?

Back to shows

It's been interesting, there is a Yougov chat thing where they ask questions and I've been taking part in it during the pandemic as much as a way to get a feel for things
They display the results immediately, normally there are about 10,000 people who've responded and the results have shown that opinions have been drifting slowly over the months.
Last year there would normally be 70% or more rock solid for a stricter lockdown, pretty much whatever was happening.
That has dropped slowly since Christmas and today was something of a first, 50% wanted the lockdown to end on the 21st, and by end they largely meant end of all restrictions
So my gut feeling isn't that shows will not be viable because of numbers attending, but because of numbers allowed to attend.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Erpingham on June 09, 2021, 05:04:18 PM
I shall preface this by saying I don't get to many shows.  I have, however, read quite a few comments on whether the current show circuit has long term viability well before the pandemic.  Lots seems to depend on critical mass - lots of punters into a small space with as many traders as you can manage.  It's a self-reinforcing system.  If traders think they'll have plenty of custom , it will tip their marginal cost calculations.  If lots of traders are expected, more people will make the effort to travel from far and wide.  With the move to online shopping across retail, this was becoming more marginal.  What will be the impact of the acceleration of the trend due to Covid?  Large retail chains have struggled to maintain physical sales points, let alone more club led activities.

Perhaps circumstances will cause a re-assessment that will create a new model for when the shackles eventually come off?



Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: aligern on June 09, 2021, 08:23:29 PM
Shows perform a vital function. Traders use them to meet customers and to show products.  If someone is launching a business in the market its a huge advantage to sell some figures to the punters because , hopefully, they will go on tompurchase the rest of the army from that trader.  Of course you can launch a wargames business just on a mail order basis, but tgat’s cutting off a sales channel and losing thevadvantage of dealing with the person face to face.
Roy
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 09, 2021, 08:48:40 PM
effectively, shows are the modern alternative to bricks and mortar shops. You can get to touch and feel stuff rather than rely on the internet
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 09, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
Personally, I see no sense in taking unnecessary risks, and I am not keen on getting back into an office. I just finished a year's contract, and never actually met anyone I worked with. It didn't bother me.

Our club meets in a hall that is managed by the Girl Guides. So far, no one, including the Guides, is rushing back, though new flooring, sanitisers and warnings have been installed.

I am finding it interesting. Because the entire agriculture industry seems to have worked normally and that includes our suppliers, feed mills, hauliers, producers of veterinary medicines etc and our customers, the dairies, slaughter houses, retail etc (slaughter houses do seem to have been hit by covid, but they keep reopening and getting on with the job).
I cannot remember the last time anybody came into our yard wearing a mask, not postmen/women or contractors and most couriers don't bother any more. I'd go bail on there being nobody this year.

A comment I heard was that agriculture we don't feel locked in, but locked out.

With regards the guides, that chimes with a comment my wife (exguider) made. She wonders how many guide and scout companies will reopen? The volunteers who ran them have escaped for 18 months. How many will pick up the burden again or will they regard it as a chance to retire?

Back to shows

It's been interesting, there is a Yougov chat thing where they ask questions and I've been taking part in it during the pandemic as much as a way to get a feel for things
They display the results immediately, normally there are about 10,000 people who've responded and the results have shown that opinions have been drifting slowly over the months.
Last year there would normally be 70% or more rock solid for a stricter lockdown, pretty much whatever was happening.
That has dropped slowly since Christmas and today was something of a first, 50% wanted the lockdown to end on the 21st, and by end they largely meant end of all restrictions
So my gut feeling isn't that shows will not be viable because of numbers attending, but because of numbers allowed to attend.

I find that quite disturbing. It would seem a lot of people have swallowed the total BS that this is all over, and we should just go back to where we were. I wear a mask, so do 90% of the people I see in shops etc.

My nephew has been told to isolate as he had a covid positive contact, so my sister is now isolating, my dog walker is in isolation as her husband has tested positive, and I'm looking at numbers of new cases now trending over 6,000 a day, and deaths just starting to rise again.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 10, 2021, 07:17:12 AM
I know its off topic but I agree with Doug re the restrictions. My wife and I have worked from home for the past 15 months, havent been on public transport, wear masks and keep the 2 metre distance thing going etc. we've also had our 2 jabs but you wont get me to go to any social gathering or a workplace for that matter for love nor money and I cant see that changing much for the foreseeable....and fwiw we felt the same this time last year when apparently it was all over and 'isnt Christmas going to be great' etc....
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 10, 2021, 07:52:20 AM
Incidentally, after posting last night I've been advised my nephew, who we are very close to, and who was here for lunch and drinks on Saturday, has tested positive. So we will be self isolating for the next 10 days.

Anyone who thinks this is all over needs to give themselves a wake up call.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Dave Knight on June 10, 2021, 07:58:54 AM
My post disappeared and I am not going to type it again so to summarise

Getting into an area that is not for forum debate in my opinion but

At the current death rate my unhealthy diet is more of a risk of me dying prematurely

It will never be over , at some point we will have to live with it

The world is full of risks to life that we accept without thought
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 10, 2021, 08:23:36 AM
My post disappeared and I am not going to type it again so to summarise

Getting into an area that is not for forum debate in my opinion but

At the current death rate my unhealthy diet is more of a risk of me dying prematurely

It will never be over , at some point we will have to live with it

The world is full of risks to life that we accept without thought

Ok, my dog walker is isolating as her husband is positive, my nephew is now confirmed positive, our regional hospital is looking for nursing volunteers for Covid work in expectation of a third wave, cases are again over 6000 daily, so I'm not taking stupid risks. Yes the world is full of risks, but if someone tells me the river has crocodiles then I can make a choice not to get in, regardless of what everyone else is doing.

I'm with Holly on this one. I think so many people are desperate to take holidays and go out for drinks and a meal, they are ignoring very real dangers. It's all feeling very 'eat out to help out' and 'all sorted by Christmas' boosterism. It was all over in July 2020 remember? So it feels very Groundhog Day to me. Each time, perhaps the wave recedes a little further, but for me it's still not a safe distance.

The reaIity for shows is that for a lot of people like myself and Dave, and a lot of players I know, we won't be taking unnecessary risks by attending. Some shows will fold I think. Some clubs also rely heavily on income from shows for funding, so that is definitely an issue some folk will be thinking about.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 10, 2021, 08:31:35 AM
it's a really bad situation all round for shows and clubs as Doug says. I for one would like to see everyone immunised before we start thinking about 'going back to normal' (whatever that is going forward). I personally would write off 2021 for this reason to allow the whole immunisation process to go through to completion and reset in 2022. But that's just an opinion and I can only speak for myself.

(also FWIW my first degree was in molecular biology and genetics so I understand quite a bit of the background science to the pandemic etc) 
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Erpingham on June 10, 2021, 08:42:46 AM
Shows perform a vital function. Traders use them to meet customers and to show products.  If someone is launching a business in the market its a huge advantage to sell some figures to the punters because , hopefully, they will go on tompurchase the rest of the army from that trader.  Of course you can launch a wargames business just on a mail order basis, but tgat’s cutting off a sales channel and losing thevadvantage of dealing with the person face to face.
Roy

A fair point, though I've seen plenty of articles and comments by traders saying the economics increasingly don't stack up and they are cutting the number of shows attended etc.  Those economics will be worse in an event with reduced footfall. 
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Erpingham on June 10, 2021, 09:02:25 AM
Not really the place to discuss wider pandemic issues but , if we look at impacts specifically on our wargames show model, we do have to take it into account.  As Doug and Dave have both said, lots of people will be wary for quite a while of entering a crowded, jostling space with poor ventilation and not a hope of keeping 1 metre plus social distances, even if everyone is wearing masks.  So, we do need to look at alternative ways of doing stuff.  The competition side of things I doubt will be an issue - levels of mixing, distancing etc.  are probably better than indoor dining and many folks are comfortable with that.  But the trading side is different.

I've thought about whether you could do shows in the same way as some of the concert experiments, with a lateral flow test approach, but I think it will be too much logistically for what are hobbyist volunteer staff to manage.  Timed entrance, like they use in museums and galleries, might be easier, with pre-booking essential.  It would mean reduced attendence but pre-booking isn't actually a big logistical stretch (pre-pandemic, I was used enough to booking onto events through eventbrite, which wasn't difficult for organisers to set up, for example).
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 10, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
well on a related matter, I have done my bit last year and this year to help keep the wargaming hobby afloat with my purchases  ;D
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: NickHarbud on June 10, 2021, 03:48:28 PM
I am relieved that Doug, in his potentially plague-ridden state, will not be attending a show near me in the near future.  However, as he points out, this disease will not be going away any time soon, which means we need to live with it, and that includes holding wargames shows.  I mean, cases of MERS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome) (with a mortality of 34%) still occur in the Middle East and elsewhere, yet no one suggests we should abstain from enjoying ourselves as a result, even in Saudi Arabia.  Incidentally, case numbers cited on Wikipedia are only those with a positive test and cases diagnosed by other means are significantly higher.

To the best of my knowledge, neither Doug nor I have any medical qualifications higher than a first-aid certificate. However, having been in Guangzhou during 2003 when people were attempting to rescue their relatives from the House of Death (aka Sun Yat Sen Memorial Hospital) and in Saudi during the 2013-19 MERS outbreaks, I probably have more experience than most in living through these diseases.

Presently, a number of mass, unmasked sporting events and raves have taken place with attendees testing before and after.  These have demonstrated that havng lots of people, sans-PPE in an enclosed space are not the super-spreader events that some feared.  I do not believe a wargames show would be any riskier than these rigorously monitored events.  On the contrary, evidence suggest that at least one class of the major UK Covid infections are the quarantine centres (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-57417585) ostensibly established to protect us from travellers bringing in the disease from elsewhere.  This should come as no surprise as Australia has had several lockdowns due to spread from such petri dishes and even as early as March 2020 the Diamond Princess showed the inherent dangers in applying such medieval containment strategies.

Of course, if anyone still feels unsafe, by all means bolt the doors and retreat under your beds.  This is a matter for individual judgement or otherwise.  However, consider this.  Since 2000 there have been four new coronavirus-type diseases identified; SARS, Mexican Swine Flu, MERS and Covid-19.  This seems to indicate we can expect another one in the next 5 years or so.  I hope everyone is looking forward to this and is investing in the luxury, under-bed figure painting studio.

Cheers!     


Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 10, 2021, 05:33:15 PM
Thanks for your input Nick. Unfortunately I am now scheduled for full testing as I have had exposure to a confirmed case, I'm in my late 50s, unfit and have had one injection so far. He second was scheduled for Saturday. It has had to be rescheduled. You'll pardon me if I take the advice of the NHS over some bloke on the Internet telling me superspreader events are little risk? I know for example, one student party here generated 36 cases from one infected person.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 10, 2021, 08:12:06 PM
coronavirus is here to stay so lets deal with it sensibly and safely until everyone has been vaccinated is all I will add
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: NickHarbud on June 11, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
I know for example, one student party here generated 36 cases from one infected person.

Doug, I am glad you have received your first jab and I hope your forthcoming test proves negative.  Regarding your comment above, I was not thinking of informal and unregulated social events, but more the official sort of events, such as the recent gig held in Sefton (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-56978065) where attendees took a test prior to entry and a couple of tests afterwards.  This strategy has also been used at several recent football matches and I see no reason why it could not be applied to wargames shows.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Erpingham on June 11, 2021, 09:41:24 AM
Quote
This strategy has also been used at several recent football matches and I see no reason why it could not be applied to wargames shows.

You do need to look at the logistics of it Nick.  How possible is it for a club-led event to deliver on this?  Perhaps some of the big events but many smaller events would struggle, I think.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 11, 2021, 12:01:15 PM
agreed logistics will be a nightmare.....
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 11, 2021, 12:40:45 PM
well on a related matter, I have done my bit last year and this year to help keep the wargaming hobby afloat with my purchases  ;D

Well done! -  and another positive note might be that some traders who attend shows but have no web presence or abysmal ones, may want to expand their channels.

Personally, my purchases this year have been quite restrained (by comparison to other years), and the 3d printer is keeping costs down, by letting me print some stuff I would otherwise have bought. (Or not..)  - but restrained mainly because I have so much in the unpainted pile I should try to catch up a bit.

Purchased 2021
14 x 28mm Cavalry
4 x 28mm AFV
127 x 28mm Infantry

Completed 2021
3 x 28mm M/C Combo & M/C
4 x 28mm Gun & Crew
43 x 28mm AFV
158 x 28mm Infantry

 
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Prufrock on June 11, 2021, 01:40:50 PM
Hi all, as an aside, I just wanted to apologise for my silly attempt at a joke in response to Tim's post on the previous page. Given how hard you in the UK have been hit by COVID it was a tasteless comment to make, and posts since by Holly and Doug have made the continuing seriousness of the situation for you all very clear.

Again, please excuse my thoughtlessness. You have all been (and are still going through) through the wringer.

Aaron
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 11, 2021, 02:42:42 PM
well on a related matter, I have done my bit last year and this year to help keep the wargaming hobby afloat with my purchases  ;D

Well done! -  and another positive note might be that some traders who attend shows but have no web presence or abysmal ones, may want to expand their channels.

Personally, my purchases this year have been quite restrained (by comparison to other years), and the 3d printer is keeping costs down, by letting me print some stuff I would otherwise have bought. (Or not..)  - but restrained mainly because I have so much in the unpainted pile I should try to catch up a bit.

Purchased 2021
14 x 28mm Cavalry
4 x 28mm AFV
127 x 28mm Infantry

Completed 2021
3 x 28mm M/C Combo & M/C
4 x 28mm Gun & Crew
43 x 28mm AFV
158 x 28mm Infantry


impressive considering 28mm  :)
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on June 11, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
I've underestimated the purchases and the painting I think, as I haven't included any markers or terrain even when they include figures...

But steady this year, and I have another 100 or so nearly done.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Tim on June 11, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
For me shows/shops are a very important part of my spending decision process. I think I have spent less in the past 15 months than I would normally do in half a year. I have made a few 'risky' purchases but only because I had a nailed on game sorted on some form of virtual tabletop. Now that I can play in person I have spent more this month than in the past 18. I would be spending about another 90 quid on rules but to lay out that much I would have to see the physical product, either at a show or a local shop (I checked and neither of mine have it in yet). Others may feel differently.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 11, 2021, 07:35:04 PM
I've spent far more in the past 15months than ever....oops
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Ade G on June 11, 2021, 07:50:58 PM
I help run a club that was set up specifically to support gamers who experienced mental health issues past and present. We have not had a meeting since the start of lockdown1. Our club website has been the only point of contact and support. We seem to have lost our venue (nobody answers e-mails etc). The long-term knock-on effects will be  felt for a very long time.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on June 11, 2021, 08:18:05 PM
that is a real shame Adrian and I can only imagine the potential knock on effects for those who benefited from the club. I hope you can restart at some point
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Baldie on June 11, 2021, 08:29:50 PM
I help run a club that was set up specifically to support gamers who experienced mental health issues past and present. We have not had a meeting since the start of lockdown1. Our club website has been the only point of contact and support. We seem to have lost our venue (nobody answers e-mails etc). The long-term knock-on effects will be  felt for a very long time.

The two gaming clubs I go to are very much a chance to meet chums and hopefully play as well.
I love shows as a chance to meet pals from further afield, see the great work the demo guys do, chance to grab something on B&B and walk past something I had never considered and turn it into another obsession.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: McNelly on July 21, 2021, 04:00:03 AM
Here in New Zealand our “shows” are mostly about competition gaming with the occasional demonstration games. A trade stand is almost never seen as they are so few on the ground.

We of course have many freedoms currently, and our wargame shows continue. Yet a small leak of COVID from our border will quickly run rampant with whatever variant is current. I hope the rest of the world recovers some freedom but in my mind your freedom may be more limited for the foreseeable future. Ours could end tomorrow.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Holly on July 21, 2021, 07:38:18 AM
good point Keith, hope the vaccination programme in NZ does the job and quickly
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on July 21, 2021, 01:00:58 PM
Four of us met at our wargames club last night and cleared away and tidied up a lot of stuff that the church had accumulated there in the time were weren't there. So we're geared up to start playing next week.

As one chap said as we left, "Now we need a wargames show to go to!"
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on July 21, 2021, 02:14:11 PM
I confess I'm still not ready to go to a show. Being double vaccinated doesn't confer immunity, and I know too many people with serious issues after Covid.

And I know there are plenty of people, some of them wargamers, who have never taken this seriously. Are organisers going to insist on masks? Just seems all too precarious for my taste.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on July 21, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
I confess I'm still not ready to go to a show. Being double vaccinated doesn't confer immunity, and I know too many people with serious issues after Covid.

And I know there are plenty of people, some of them wargamers, who have never taken this seriously. Are organisers going to insist on masks? Just seems all too precarious for my taste.

It's interesting, I did the 'Greggs run' for the foodbank yesterday evening (when Greggs close on an evening they give a lot of what hasn't been sold to charities)
So my experience of this town, which has been hit hard several times by covid, is that the vast majority of people have abandoned masks when they could. Its not that they don't know what it can do, a lot of them will have had it.
Of the four of us who were tidying up the club room, only the youngest came in briefly wearing a mask, I think he was a bit worried that we old ones might be nervous. But the two oldest had both had it, both been double vaccinated and both been in industries what worked straight through without lockdown.

I think it's a matter of perspective. For me, frankly, I might have ten decent years left. (Judging by the males of the last two generations of my family. I could squeeze a couple of years more, but let's say ten. )
I might die from covid, or flu, but frankly statistically it's more likely to be cancer or perhaps heart. Given the nature of my job and lone working, if I do have a stroke or a heart attack there's a fair chance that I'll be found dead because if I have one, nobody could miss me until the next meal time and even then they wouldn't know where to look. As for phones, signal isn't good so I rarely carry one.
So given I could have ten decent years left, how do I want to spend them?
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Erpingham on July 21, 2021, 03:41:54 PM
From the show organisers point of view, though, its not just about personal risk tolerance but their duty of care.  How do they reduce risk to the punters of poor ventillation and overcrowding and to traders having people bellowing at them in noisy halls from way under "1 metre +" all day? 
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: DougM on July 21, 2021, 03:50:40 PM
From the show organisers point of view, though, its not just about personal risk tolerance but their duty of care.  How do they reduce risk to the punters of poor ventillation and overcrowding and to traders having people bellowing at them in noisy halls from way under "1 metre +" all day?

Not to mention club members putting on games, etc. Yep. I organise a small regional show scheduled for start of November,  and I'm not sure I want the headache.
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: davidb on July 21, 2021, 05:26:44 PM
I just got a notification on Historicon which has been postponed to November from the summer this year. Here's what the organizers had to say:

We also wanted to let you know that, as a necessary part of convention planning, we have continued considering needs related to safety and the COVID-19 pandemic. HMGS policy on COVID-19 has always been to adhere to all legal requirements and to follow CDC recommendations regarding restrictions. Right now neither the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania nor the Valley Forge Casino Resort is requiring any restrictions regarding COVID-19. At the same time, we recognize that our attendees need to be and feel safe. In an effort to balance what's required with what participants may need for safety, Historicon will be taking the following steps:
Title: Re: The future of wargaming shows...
Post by: Jim Webster on July 21, 2021, 07:24:55 PM
Setting aside health effects, I'd question the economic viability of 'socially distanced' show with a lot fewer punters.
Given that the organisers will have extra stress and cost, they're unlikely to be able to cut table costs etc, which means that traders are faced with the same entry cost, plus their own extra cost because of covid etc, knowing there will be fewer people present to buy stuff.

Certainly if I was asked about running a show my advice would be to forget it. However much I want to go to one.