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I tend to think of "Dark Ages" as a subset of "Early Medieval", ending around AD 800, while Early Medieval lasts into the eleventh century.

Which I guess is one reason to avoid it - it means different things to different people. But it also means I don't have an obvious alternative designation.

I'll quibble with the claim that the term is "eurocentric". Yes, it's primarily applicable to (western) Europe, and makes little sense applied to other regions. But no-one would say that a label like "Late Postclassic" is mexicocentric because it makes little sense applied to China or India. If there's eurocentrism, it's in applying European periods where they don't make sense, not in the period labels themselves.

Not far from the farm where I was brought up in Sutton Mandeville. There are two hillforts nearby at Chiselbury Ring and Castle Ditches.

No problemo...

I will send it in before New Years Eve.

Jaws has alot to answer for

Nicely summarised and parcelled....

Erm..not really

"Dark" refers to the lack of historical documentary evidence of the period of the 9th and 10th centuries. Of course the term transmuted into the popular image of perpetually overcast skies, sullen peasants who didn't know what soap was, and endless warfare.

Feudal comes from the late Roman coloni system, where the senatorial class possessed huge tracts of land and the peasants lived on them as tenants, obligated to produce a certain amount of food for their landlord (today it's a city thing and money has taken the place of food). Generalising things, peasants became substantially freer after the Black Death, when the lack of manual labour meant they could start dictating terms. But this is a gross simplification.

I like these distinctions:

Romanitas - end of the Western Empire until conquest of Italy by the Lombards. There was still a kind of respect for the Roman system (the Visigoths for example had the Emperor's head on their coinage into the 6th century). Social life went on as before, with the new barbarian overlords acting rather like mafia families - taking their cut but otherwise leaving the locals alone. The Senate continued to meet in Rome.

Carolingian period - The Franks become the premier power in Europe with the collapse of the Eastern Roman Empire's dominance after the Arab conquests. Society is more basic but still functions - the chapel at Aix shows everything hasn't been lost yet.

The real Dark Ages - after the disintegration of the Carolingian Empire. No Emperor, no kings even, just local lords who are helpless against the ravages by the Vikings, Saracens and Maygars. However it must be noted that even in this period the sun still shone and peasants knew what soap was.

The Ottonian restoration - after the battle of Lechfeld the Ottonian Empire begins the restoration of order in Europe. I would say the true Middle Ages begin here. France becomes a kingdom and Athelstan defeats the Vikings and asserts control over Danelaw.

After that how do you want to subdivide the period from 1000 to 1500AD? It's pretty much the same society in development with no major crises threatening its existence.

Quote from: Jim Webster on December 25, 2024, 10:08:39 AMSame with England, at what time did the feudal period end in England?

I wasn't aware that it had 

Quote from: Ian61 on December 25, 2024, 12:58:12 PM

Quote from: skb777 on December 25, 2024, 11:47:37 AMI can't look at sunken wrecks as they give me the heeby jeebies. Anything to do with the Titanic I just avoid *shudders*

Been in a force 10 above Iceland. Frankly the effort of doing things prevents any thought of sinking, I was only just about OK sea sickness wise but many others really suffered. Interestingly a number of the South East Asian crew made a beeline to the church in Akureryri to thank for for their deliverance, one of them who we knew from previous voyages said he had been on the ship for nearly ten years but it was the worst storm he had known.

I have no problem with boats above the water, I just can't look at pictures of them underneath it or even worse half poking out.