Pipes and drums?

[Ian61]

I was browsing the forum yesterday and came across a reference by Patrick Waterson about "...the Spartans, who advanced to the music of pipes..." it got me thinking about my current modelling. My Roman infantry units each have a chap with a large horn and the Germans/Gauls I am just making up also appear to have horns, although in the shape of some mythical creature. in my naivety I had half expected to see some bagpipes having always been told these are very ancient instruments. Whilst the horns could certainly be used for signalling was there actually much instrumental intimidation in the ancient world?

[Erpingham]

Having heard the sound of a reconstructed carnyx at the BM Celts exhibition, it would certainly be intimidating.  Musical I think the jury is out

[Duncan Head]

For there were among them such innumerable horns and trumpets, which were being blown at the same time from all parts of their army, and their cries were so loud and piercing, that the noise seemed to come not from human voices and trumpets, but from the whole countryside at once.

(Polybius, Histories, II, 29 - of the Gauls)

It was standard Chinese practice to signal an attack by beating the drums, and to use the gong to sound the retreat:

The state of Qi attacked the state of Lu. Duke Zhuang was about to commit Lu's army to battle when Cao Gui requested permission to join him. The duke had him ride in his chariot and went to engage Qi in battle at Changshao. The duke was just about to have the drums sound the advance when Cao Gui exclaimed "Not yet." After Qi had sounded their drums three times Cao then said "Now." They (beat the drums), engaged in combat, and severely defeated Qi's army. After their victory, the duke inquired why Cao had delayed the drums. Cao replied: "Combat is a matter of courageous qi. A single drumming arouses the soldiers' qi, with a second it abates, and with a third it is exhausted. They were exhausted while we were vigorous, so we conquered them.

(Zuo zhuan, under yr.10 of Duke Zhuang (683 BC))

So both tactical signal and psychological device.

[Ian61]

So they are called carnyx, now I know that I have looked them up, there is a Danish panel showing at least three being played simultaneously which goes someway to answering my question. It sounds as if they are not a pleasant noise; so three would be somewhat worse!
And thank you Duncan, I have just pulled down my copy of Polybius and in the same paragraph he talks of the Gauls singing battle-hymns which appeals to the Welsh side of my ancestry! Overall the impression Polybius gives is of quite an intimidating cacophony. The Chinese quotation sounds a little too Zen for me!

[Patrick Waterson]

The Chinese quotation sounds a little too Zen for me!

It is simply this: thumping the drums up to fever pitch excites the troops, but do it too early (in this case some time before the fighting starts) and they get worked up and then let down.  This takes the vitality, enthusiasm and sense of purpose (embraced in the Chinese qi, Japanese ki, spirit energy, life force) out of them leaving the, like pop festival attendees on the morning after the night before.  Get your own drums (and troops) going at this point and you will roll over them.  Cao Gui understood this point of psychology and mental preparation and so resisted the urge to make a noise just because the opposition were doing so, saving the psychological boost for when it could make a mark in actual fighting as opposed to preliminary posturing.

[Erpingham]

Here is Jean Froissart on the Scots army just after Otterburn.

Lightly it is the usage of Scots, that when they be thus assembled together in arms, the footmen beareth about their necks horns in manner like hunters, some great, some small, and of all sorts, so that when they blow all at once, they make such a noise, that it may be heard nigh four miles off: thus they do to abash their enemies and to rejoice themselves. When the bishop of Durham with his banner and ten thousand men with him were approached within a league, then the Scots blew their horns in such wise, that it seemed that all the devils in hell had been among them, so that such as heard them and knew not of their usage were sore abashed. This blowing and noise endured a long space and then ceased: and by that time the Englishmen were within less than a mile. Then the Scots began to blow again and made a great noise, and as long endured as it did before. Then the bishop approached with his battle well ranged in good order and came within the sight of the Scots, as within two bow-shot or less: then the Scots blew again their horns a long space.

The English at this point bottled it.  To be fair, the Scots had defeated one English army and tackling a bunch of confident Scots in a good defensive position with a half hearted bunch of militia wasn't really a good idea.

Note the reason for the horn blowing which in fact is a common medieval approach, albeit usually with trumpets - your music inspires your side and demoralises the enemy. 

[Mark G]

Don't forget the Roman baratus.  Cheapest and easiest instrument to learn, with proven battlefield effectiveness

[Swampster]

So they are called carnyx, now I know that I have looked them up, there is a Danish panel showing at least three being played simultaneously which goes someway to answering my question. It sounds as if they are not a pleasant noise; so three would be somewhat worse!

If Danish, it may be a lur. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lur
Quite a Danish icon,hence its use on https://groceries.morrisons.com/productImages/112/112327011_0_640x640.jpg?identifier=93d20799d119243b8789175e7425797c

[Erpingham]

I think the original comment is a reference to the Gundestrup Cauldron, which was found in Denmark.  Artistically, however, it is probably central European and the instruments are certainly carnyxes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Figures_with_horns_on_the_Gundestrup_Cauldron.jpg

Lurs are, judging from reconstructions, much more musically capable than carnyxes.