A (quite) really historical Leuctra using VASSAL Optio

[Justin Swanton]

This time I added some psiloi and peltasts to the mix and the result was IMHO pretty close to historical. One exception: the Spartan left historically did not advance once it saw the right in trouble, but in this case I sent them in to see if they could get any counterplay and possibly turn the tide, or at least make for a balanced and interesting game. I've annotated the diagrams this time. Comments and critiques welcome. Enjoy!

Full battle report can be downloaded from here.

[dwkay57]

Thanks for that Justin, again interesting and the annotation helped to get a feel for matching the action shots to the narrative.
It is interesting that you don't allow your commanders to issue new orders as this might have helped the Spartans in dealing with the wandering cavalry and taking advantage of the gaps in the Theban echelon.

When I get the time, I must have a go that battle. My Spartans and Thebans don't appear to have had a go at each other, so this might be a good excuse.

[Justin Swanton]

Thanks for that Justin, again interesting and the annotation helped to get a feel for matching the action shots to the narrative.
It is interesting that you don't allow your commanders to issue new orders as this might have helped the Spartans in dealing with the wandering cavalry and taking advantage of the gaps in the Theban echelon.

When I get the time, I must have a go that battle. My Spartans and Thebans don't appear to have had a go at each other, so this might be a good excuse.

Glad you liked it. 

The no new orders rule puts a lid on player initiative (which PIP dice in other rulesets also do). The idea is that the general is busy fighting and has no idea of what is happening elsewhere on the battlefield, so he can't issue new orders as he doesn't have the god's eye view of the player. It's about local initiative - what local commanders and captains can see they can react to, but what they can see is limited. I think Optio actually gives more scope to players than, say, DBM, since Optio doesn't freeze an army in its tracks with a low PIP throw. If you can keep your units in command - not separated from their commanders - you can move them all each turn.

If you're interested we can try this battle via VASSAL. I think the Spartan player has a chance if he anticipates the Theban thrust on his right flank and holds back there, driving forward with his own left. The thin Theban centre and right is quite vulnerable.

[dwkay57]

Yes - I don't like the PIP system either, but I do allow my generals to issue new orders. This depends on them not being in melee, being able to see the event (i.e. within 4 hexes which is about 1 mile, or getting a message from a subordinate (which can have a time delay depending upon the distance between them).

[Justin Swanton]

I did used to allow the general to give a single order to a subcommander after the battle had begun. The new order cancelled previous orders and allowed the subcommander to go in one direction only. But IMHO a general issuing new orders in mid-battle was more a Napoleonic than an Antiquity thing . In Antiquity I don't recall examples of it happening (anyone feel free to prove me wrong). What proactive generals like Caesar would do is hurry to a portion of his army that needed redirecting and take direct command of it himself, set it up the way he wanted it, and then go somewhere else. But we'll see if the hammer and anvil of playtesting requires it.

[Duncan Head]

Eumenes summoning light cavalry from one wing to the other at Paraitakene? Does it matter for your system whether he sent the order directly to the units, or to the general responsible for them?

[Justin Swanton]

Eumenes summoning light cavalry from one wing to the other at Paraitakene? Does it matter for your system whether he sent the order directly to the units, or to the general responsible for them?

True enough. In Optio the order would be given to the general. Noted.