Western Mediterranean Greeks in the 3rd (and 2nd) centuries BC

[RichardBodleyScott]

What evidence is there for the tactical systems used by the Sicilian Greek cities and Massiliots in the 3rd century BC?

To what extent did they continue to field conventional hoplites, or replace them with thureophoroi?

Did any of western Mediterranean Greek states (apart from Taras) use a Macedonian-style phalanx?

Is there any evidence for Massiliot forces in the 2nd century BC?

[Duncan Head]

(a) Very little.
(b) As far as I know, there is no evidence for thyreoi. In the 3rd century Theocritus' Idyll 16 was written to Hiero II (r.270-215) and contains a reference to Syracusans confronting the Carthaginians:

For lo! the Phoenician dweller in the foot of Lilybè in the west shudders already and shakes; the Syracusan hath already his spear by the middle and the shield upon his arm; and there like one of the olden heroes stands Hiero girding his loins among his men, a horse-hair plume waving on his crest..

The "shield" is sakos, translated "wicker shield" in some versions but as leather elsewhere; however in this case it probably doesn't refer to any specific type of shield, but (as the word is originally Homeric) is just a poetic term for "shield" in general. (See https://www.academia.edu/556299/The_Unbreakable_Shield_Thematics_of_Sakos_and_Aspis for sakos in Homer,  which probably doesn't help you.) The only thing I would say is that if you were to read the Idyll as literally as you can, then a doru grasped "in the middle" is not a sarissa, and a shield held on the arm rather than in the hand isn't a thureos.

(c) Not as far as we know.
(d) Don't think so. There were Gallic cavalry in Massaliot service accompanying the Roman cavalry up the Rhone after Hannibal in 218, but that's all I can think of.

[Jim Webster]

Slightly later but in the civil war between Caesar and Pompey the Massilots were forced to take sides. It's mentioned that they had "large numbers of archers" whom they put on boats to support the naval action, and also they had Albici mercenaries or allies. Some sources describe them as Gallic, others as Ligurian.

[Patrick Waterson]

I am not sure this counts as evidence, but it may be worth noting that Hiero II of Syracuse (ruled 270-215 BC) married his son (later Gelo II) to Pyrrhus of Epirus' daughter Nereis.  This may be grounds for suggesting that Syracuse might have adopted the (basically Hellenistic) Epirot military system, though all it unequivocally proves is that Hiero II's son married Pyrrhus' daughter.

[RichardBodleyScott]

Thanks guys. For the want of better evidence, then, I had best stick to the previous list convention that they mostly used hoplites.

[Jim Webster]

Thanks guys. For the want of better evidence, then, I had best stick to the previous list convention that they mostly used hoplites.

after a lot of hunting I never found anything that would contradict that