The Kingarth Stone: a Strathclyde warrior?

[Duncan Head]

I haven't come across this image before:
https://senchus.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/the-kingarth-warrior/

https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-352-1/dissemination/pdf/vol_034/34_307_325.pdf looks like the original report (from 1900).

[Erpingham]

As he says, difficult to date.  The face-on,  spear-in-hand look is typically late medieval but the clothing, the horizontal short sword  and the crudeness of the carving suggest earlier.  I'm sure several manufacturers make an upper class late pict who could be this chap though.

The warrior on the cross slab (not the one mentioned as on the back of this slab) shown in the original report is interesting, with his long spear and possible crested Aberlemno-style helmet.  If that is a bird flying ahead, is he Odin, I wonder?  Or just some guy out hawking?

[Duncan Head]

I hadn't really looked at the cross-slab horseman. His general appearance, especially the pose of the horse and the downward-angled spear, is very Pictish. Though I can't think of a Pictish parallel for the bird.

But then, the Trusty's Hill symbol-stone suggested that not all Pictish-style carvings were necessarily made by Picts in Pictland, so maybe he's a Strathclyder as well.

[Erpingham]

I hadn't really looked at the cross-slab horseman. His general appearance, especially the pose of the horse and the downward-angled spear, is very Pictish. Though I can't think of a Pictish parallel for the bird.

But then, the Trusty's Hill symbol-stone suggested that not all Pictish-style carvings were necessarily made by Picts in Pictland, so maybe he's a Strathclyder as well.

I agree.  Wild speculation on the Odin front because of bird (if indeed that is what it is) - I'd go with Pictish styling too.  As you say, though, this is border country with mixing of styles (as noted in the web article) so isn't necessarily meant to show a Pict.

[DougM]

The horsemen (Figs 26 & Fig 30), look very reminiscent (stylistically) of the Pictish horsemen on the Aberlemno Stone

[aligern]

Great stuff Duncan, perhaps a short Slingshot article?
Could anyone,mJustin for ecampke work the foot warrior into a more developed picture?
Seems to me that the sword position would be absolutely key to dating as it likely depends on a leather and perhaps metal belt structure which is likely to be customary and thus hopefully repeated somewhere in a context.
Roy

[Imperial Dave]

that's a good blog Duncan, another one to add to my list

[aligern]

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13730&d=1406264706

Note the angle of the sword on the horseman here fro Ardchattan
I think he might have an 11 th century attribution?
R

[Duncan Head]

That's the rear of the Kirriemuir 2 stone, Roy: at http://warfare2.netai.net/6C-11C/Kirriemuir_2_stone_rear.htm there's a better picture. (Which shows some really cool details: is that a mail cape the upper horseman's wearing? And what's that jacket that the mounted huntsman's got!)

That site suggests a C9th-10th date but at https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-352-1/dissemination/pdf/vol_130/130_637_650.pdf, Lloyd Laing sees hints of a later date, Roy's C11th or even later:

Kirriemuir 2 was recognized by Henderson (1978, 56) as 'late' (by implication ninth century or later).

There are external clues to the dating of Kirriemuir 2 and Monifieth 2. The mounted warrior on Kirriemuir 2 (on the back, top) carries a sword with straight guards and domed pommel (illus 2b). This type of sword is found on a few other Pictish stones (notably at Shandwick, discussed below), and seems to have started to replace in the later ninth century the type with down-curved guards and upturned pommel represented for example on Aberlemno 2, Angus. The sword type has been discussed by Davidson (1962, 57 and pl XI-XIII) and Bone (1989, 66). The Kirriemuir type of sword appears in English sculpture in the 10th century, for example at Middleton 2A, Yorkshire (Lang 1991, 183 and pl 677), or the Nunburnholme Cross also in Yorkshire (Lang 1991, 189–93 and pl 721), dated to the late ninth or 10th century. Variants of the type with a pommel shaped like a flattened hemisphere were current in the 11th century, namely Petersen's (1919) types W and X, represented in London as Type VII (Wheeler 1927), and it is with these later variants that the Kirriemuir sword  most closely corresponds.
...
A date as late as the 11th or early 12th century is possible for Kirriemuir 2 on the basis of these analogies, and the form of the sword pommel, as discussed above, would not be out of keeping with this.

The Kingarth sword, unfortunately, has no pommel shown, and an upturned guard (which actually reminds me of some Bronze Age Aegean hilts!) so - while the angle of carry is similar - I'm not sure how close the parallel is.