Uniformed Karadakes?

[Ade G]

Is there a consensus on how uniformed Kardakes infantry clothing might appear?
I am about to paint the tunics and trousers on some very nice Foundry spearmen and have had a failure of faith in my belief that they might have had uniforms from a central source.

One or two are unarmoured with an over-tunic rucked up exposing the under-tunic and the former will be painted in a uniform colour.

Ideas and opinions most welcome.

[aligern]

Well Darius does seem to have either issued kit or caused equipment to be created on a standard basis. So there is some logic to issuing clothing.
My main reason for common colours is aesthetics, If a unit has quite bright colours and yet lacks uniformity it can look like a dog's breakfast. This is true of some landsknecht units, individually the figures look good, but collectively its too distracting. One can have a half way house with a restricted palette being used but with design variations. This particularly suits Persians because their clothing has applique embroidery  which. can vary in pattern and , within a range, in colour, on a common base colour.
Roy

[Ade G]

Absolutely agree on the aesthetics Roy. There is always a balance to be pursued.
I could go with a uniform overtunic. base coloured under-tunic with applique and uniform trousers with simple patterns.
The thing that always sticks in my mind about Achaemenid clothing is that it was subtle in colour despite at times having intricate patterns.

[eques]

My first army was EAP, and I gave each sparabara man & Immortal their own pattern, which was fun.Then, about the time the army was nearing completion it occurred to me that maybe each unit had its own tribal pattern, a la Scottish tartan. If I had my time again I'd give each battle group its own pattern (a format I followed with my next army - Ancient British).  I'm also currently doing a 6mm LAP army, and am following that format there as well.

I guess it's really down to.individual taste (and whether the idea of creating hundreds of separate patterns appeals to you!)

[dwkay57]

I have painted my 6mm Kardakes in a uniform colour. But then I've painted all my 6mm units / armies (apart from some Ancient Brits) in uniform colours just to make identification easy on the battlefield and also reflects my poor painting skills.

Thus all my Thebans have yellow shields but only true Thebans have yellow tunics, allied states have different coloured tunics. Spartans are similarly based but around red.
This follow the Tony Bath guidelines which probably reflect later rather than ancient practices.

[Ade G]

Think I will go with a base colour for clothing as this material could be from a central source and then add a range of patterns to give a semi-cohesive look.

[Duncan Head]

There is really no hard evidence for all-over uniforms except for guards units - you can identify some regimental uniforms reasonably plausibly on the Alexander Sarcophagus, for instance, but they are likely to be guards. What I have always suspected is that the degree of uniformity varied - that it was the local governor's responsibility to equip the units they raised, and that some would put more effort into it than others:

This is how you would best please me: when I declare the time for your coming, every one of you must eagerly appear; and whoever comes with his army best equipped will receive from me such gifts as are reckoned most precious among us.

I suspect that one of the most likely items to be uniform is headgear, judging from the prevalence of yellow caps among at least ethnic Persians. So in order of likelihood to be uniform, I'd say: shield, cap, over-tunic (if more than one is worn), tunic, trousers. I tend not to go overboard with the decoration for non-elite units - look at the Kinch Tomb infantryman, he's quite plain.

[Patrick Waterson]

Duncan, have you any idea whether infantryman 1 or 2 in the 'infantry' link is intended as one of the Kardakes?  If so, this could give Ade a painting guide.

Concur about satrapal infantry; uniformity of contingent considered desirable but would be plainer than the best units.  As a governor, you do not show up the royal contingent even if you want to.

[Duncan Head]

Figure 2 is intended as kardakes, though he is a pretty hypothetical reconstruction from IIRC fragments on the Mosaic.

[Ade G]

Duncan, have you any idea whether infantryman 1 or 2 in the 'infantry' link is intended as one of the Kardakes?  If so, this could give Ade a painting guide.

Concur about satrapal infantry; uniformity of contingent considered desirable but would be plainer than the best units.  As a governor, you do not show up the royal contingent even if you want to.

I have used the illustration in Duncan's book as a start point and have them in yellow caps with similar shields, the ones with over-tunics have the same colour and then I themed the units with white cloth with simple blue and yellow decoration.

[evilgong]

hi there

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Concur about satrapal infantry; uniformity of contingent considered desirable but would be plainer than the best units.  As a governor, you do not show up the royal contingent even if you want to.

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Doesn't Xenophon in the Cyropaedia mention Persian nobles trying to outdo each other by providing their units with the most expensive clothing they could.

David F Brown

[Patrick Waterson]

Doesn't Xenophon in the Cyropaedia mention Persian nobles trying to outdo each other by providing their units with the most expensive clothing they could.

Well spotted.  Cyropaedia III.3.6:

"Now when he [Cyrus] came back to Media he gave to each of his captains as much of the money as he thought sufficient, so that they in turn might be able to reward any of the men under them with whose conduct they were pleased; for he thought that if each one made his division worthy of commendation, he would find the whole army in fine condition. And whenever he himself saw anywhere anything calculated to improve his army, he always procured it and distributed it in presents from time to time among the most deserving; for he thought that everything that his army had that was beautiful and fine was an adornment to himself."

Is this the passage you had in mind?

There is also VI.2.4:

"The rest of his preparations for war Cyrus now continued on a magnificent scale, for he was planning no mean enterprise; and he provided not only for that which his allies had agreed upon but he also inspired his friends to rivalry among themselves, in order that each complement might strive to show its men the best armed soldiers, the most skilled horsemen, the best marksmen with spear or bow, and the most industrious workers."

[Jim Webster]

I often wonder if Xenophon has Agesilaus in mind as the model for this

"At the first sign of spring he collected the whole of his forces at Ephesus. With a view to their training he offered prizes for the cavalry squadron that rode best, and for the company of heavy infantry that reached the highest level of physical fitness. He also offered prizes to the targeteers and the archers who showed the greatest efficiency in their particular duties. Thereupon one might see every gymnasium crowded with the men exercising, the racecourse thronged with cavalrymen riding, and the javelin-men and archers shooting at the mark."

[Ade G]

Sounds the perfect contingent for a painter of wargames figures!