Egyptian chariots at Megiddo

[Cyrus]

Were the Egyptian chariots at Megiddo four spoke or six spoke wheeled vehicles? I've seen depictions of Syrians bringing presents to Tuthmose III from the tomb of Rekmire c.1400 BC with a six spoke chariot. Six spoke wheels replaced four spoke wheels by mid 18th Dynasty and a chariot of Thumose IV had eight spokes (Stillman & Tallis p.98). I'm painting a command chariot for Tuthmose III, thanks for any advice!

[Mark G]

The ivory plaque from Megiddo shows 6

[Duncan Head]

According to Matei Traian Tichindelean's Uni of Liverpool dissertation The Egyptian Chariotry in the New Kingdom (which I can't find online any more):

In the late Eighteenth Dynasty, as the transition from four-spoke to six-spoke wheels was underway, the artists' representations slowly began to reflect this change. By the reign of Amenhotep III elite individuals represented themselves in six-spoke chariots.

This looks to place the change from four to six later than Thutmose III and the Battle of Megiddo.

[Chuck the Grey]

Yigael Yadin states in The Art of Warfare in Biblical Lands that Egyptian chariot in the 16th and 15th centuries BC were light with two four spoke wheels. Based on depictions of chariots in tomb paintings, Yadin places the appearance of the six spoke chariot around 1400 BC, after Megiddo in 1457 BC.

However, considering on the ivory plaque that Mark mentioned, we could consider that Thutmose III was mounted in a newer, heavier prototype chariot that would start to come into services slowly. The date of the plaque would be important. Was it contemporary with Thutmose III or a later stylized depiction of the pharaoh.

[Cyrus]

Thanks for your responses gents, much appreciated.

[Mark G]

The ivory I found in Yadin under the heading "fragments found at Megiddo ",

But it's dated c 1200, and shows 4 chariots overrunning enemies, and the don't look Egyptian .

It might bear a second pair of eyes to interpret.
I've just worked out it is the reconstruction I was looking at, and there is nearby text stating it is Canaanite chariots, and they are central axels and not the earlier 4 spoked Canaanite ones.

The image identified as the king - his wheels are lost from the artifact .

And earlier Yadin titles a chapter that 6 spoke chariots can be used as a criterion to date an Egyptian monument after 1400.

[Andreas Johansson]

So it sounds like it's a plaque from Megiddo, the place, and not one depicting Megiddo, the battle?

[Erpingham]

So it sounds like it's a plaque from Megiddo, the place, and not one depicting Megiddo, the battle?

Yes.  There are actually three plaques illustrated by Yadin from Megiddo.  I would be very cautious about reconstructing details of the chariots in the "chariots overrunning infantry" one - the original is shown and I can't even see the wheels, let alone count the spokes.

On p.200 of my edition, there are illustrations of bow practice from the chariot.  Amenhotep II is shown and the caption states he is "the last king to use a chariot with a four-spoked wheel".  The image is from Karnak and Yadin dates it 1436-1411 B.C.

[Chuck the Grey]

Anthony, on what page of Yadin are the ivory plaques? I think we have the same edition (two volumes), if not I can at least focus my unsuccessful search to a smaller area.

[Cyrus]

The Megiddo ivories are on pp.206-207 and pp.242-243, Yadin says some date to the late 13th century and some to the early 13th century and some are reconstructions. My two volume edition still has Blumstein's Bookstores Tel-Aviv stickers on the inside back covers!

[Chuck the Grey]

Thanks Michael, I'll take a look. 

[Erpingham]

Anthony, on what page of Yadin are the ivory plaques? I think we have the same edition (two volumes), if not I can at least focus my unsuccessful search to a smaller area.

Actually mine is one volume (Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1965) but the pages are the same as Michael's two volume, so it's worth knowing if we get to reference again, we can use pages from either.

[Jon Freitag]

Anthony, on what page of Yadin are the ivory plaques? I think we have the same edition (two volumes), if not I can at least focus my unsuccessful search to a smaller area.

Actually mine is one volume (Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1965) but the pages are the same as Michael's two volume, so it's worth knowing if we get to reference again, we can use pages from either.

That is a useful tidbit.  My copies are the two volume editions.