Neo Babylonian Camels

[rodge]

In the Armati A2 Army list the Neo Babylonians have this listed for selection:

1 K CM                        3[0]0 +1 Bows              9

Which equates to a bow armed camel unit.
I see in the DBM list they appear as 'Arab Levies Irr Cam (O)'.
Is there evidence that Camels appeared in Babylonian armies as battlefield troops and, if they did, any evidence they were bow armed?
AANE did not help clarify things and I have found nothing else on a web search (but then there are not many places to look I believe).

[Duncan Head]

The use of Arab troops is mentioned here, though with no indication that they're infantry, camelry, or whatever.

If Arab camel-riders did appear in Babylonian armies, they would hardly have been anything other than bow-armed: the Assyrian reliefs show bow-armed Arab cameleers, and Herodotos lists them in the Persian army.

[rodge]

Thanks.

If Arab camel-riders did appear in Babylonian armies, they would hardly have been anything other than bow-armed: the Assyrian reliefs show bow-armed Arab cameleers, and Herodotos lists them in the Persian army.

I should have been clearer in my original question; did they use bow from camel back or did they dismount to fight?

[eques]

I'd guess they were fairly common Auxiliaries/Support Mercenaries in that region and era, the sort of "tribute" Great Kings would demand from their Arab Vassals.

[Duncan Head]

I should have been clearer in my original question; did they use bow from camel back or did they dismount to fight?

Then I think the answer is that nobody really knows. The well-known Assyrian reliefs show archers on camelback shooting behind them as they flee, but it has been suggested that they're doing this only because they are fleeing. I have seen reports of another fragment of sculpture showing archers shooting from behind a line of kneeling camels; maybe that was closer to their standard tactics, but who knows?

[rodge]

Thanks again.

I did know about the relief debate, just wondered if there was anything else out there.
Firing from behind kneeling camels is possible, Procopius [VIII.27-3] mentions a similar tactics against the Vandals, but the Moors were hurling javelins in this instance; I'm sure there are other examples.

[Andreas Johansson]

ISTR Prokopios also has an account of Moors trying the same against Byzantines and failing because the latter had bows to shoot back with?

Out of period, we've got Indians and others shooting with firearms from behind kneeling kneeling camels.

I confess to mild incredulity that people who can shoot from camelback when fleeing wouldn't do so in other circumstances. Now, they may of course have practiced both mounted and dismounted shooting.

[aligern]

Lo, they are the Boulton Paul Defiant of the Ancient world.
Roy

[rodge]

I confess to mild incredulity that people who can shoot from camelback when fleeing wouldn't do so in other circumstances.

A very good point...

[Patrick Waterson]

I confess to mild incredulity that people who can shoot from camelback when fleeing wouldn't do so in other circumstances.

A very good point...

And very well put.  I would suggest that fighting mounted in mobile fashion would be the default configuration, and that the 'camel laager' would be employed when choice or necessity demanded holding a position.

Lo, they are the Boulton Paul Defiant of the Ancient world.

Perhaps in more ways than one.

[Erpingham]

Lo, they are the Boulton Paul Defiant of the Ancient world.

Perhaps in more ways than one.

You mean they were very vulnerable in the daytime but were reasonably good fighting at night time, at least until something better came along?

[Patrick Waterson]

You mean they were very vulnerable in the daytime but were reasonably good fighting at night time, at least until something better came along?

That is another aspect I had not considered, but is possibly quite true.

The configuration of apparently good almost-all-round shooting capability with a vulnerable and not over-agile conveyance is the most striking parallel.

[Andreas Johansson]

ISTR Prokopios also has an account of Moors trying the same against Byzantines and failing because the latter had bows to shoot back with?

Found it. Turns out I misremembered - the Byzantine "trick" wasn't archery but dismounting to attack on foot:

They [sc. the Moors] formed a circle of their camels, just as, in the previous narrative, I have said Cabaon did, making the front about twelve deep. And they placed the women with the children within the circle; (for among the Moors it is customary to take also a few women, with their children, to battle, and these make the stockades and huts for them and tend the horses skilfully, and have charge of the camels and the food; they also sharpen the iron weapons and take upon themselves many of the tasks in connection with the preparation for battle); and the men themselves took their stand on foot in between the legs of the camels, having shields and swords and small spears which they are accustomed to hurl like javelins. And some of them with their horses remained quietly among the mountains. But Solomon [sc. the Byzantine commander] disregarded one half of the circle of the Moors, which was towards the mountain, placing no one there. For he feared lest the enemy on the mountain should come down and those in the circle should turn about and thus make the men drawn up there exposed to attack on both sides in the battle. But against the remainder of the circle he drew up his whole army, and since he saw the most of them frightened and without courage, on account of what had befallen Aïgan and Rufinus, and wishing to admonish them to be of good cheer, he spoke as follows:
[snip exhortations to their men by the Byzantine and Moorish commanders]
After the officers of the Moors had delivered this exhortation, they began the engagement. And at first there arose great disorder in the Roman army. For their horses were offended by the noise made by the camels and by the sight of them, and reared up and threw off their riders and the most of them fled in complete disorder. And in the meantime the Moors were making sallies and hurling all the small spears which they had in their hands, thus causing the Roman army to be filled with tumult, and they were hitting them with their missiles while they were unable either to defend themselves or to remain in position. But after this, Solomon, observing what was happening, leaped down from his horse himself first and caused all the others to do the same. And when they had dismounted, he commanded the others to stand still, and, holding their shields before them and receiving the missiles sent by the enemy, to remain in their position; but he himself, leading forward not less than five hundred men, made an attack upon the other portion of the circle. These men he commanded to draw their swords and kill the camels which stood at that point. Then the Moors who were stationed there beat a hasty retreat, and the men under Solomon killed about two hundred camels, and straightway, when the camels fell, the circle became accessible to the Romans. And they advanced on the run into the middle of the circle where the women of the Moors were sitting; meanwhile the barbarians in consternation withdrew to the mountain which was close by, and as they fled in complete disorder the Romans followed behind and killed them. And it is said that ten thousand of the Moors perished in this encounter, while all the women together with the children were made slaves. And the soldiers secured as booty all the camels which they had not killed. Thus the Romans with all their plunder went to Carthage to celebrate the festival of triumph.

Prokopios however doesn't say anywhere, either here nor in the previous incident with the Vandals, that the camels where kneeling; indeed that the Moors stood between their legs would seem to imply they were standing.

Wars I-VI are available in English translation as free ebooks at Project Gutenberg.