Hungarian ‘Black Army’ 1458-1494

[rodge]

Could anyone recommend figures for the Royal Banderium in 15mm please?
Essex don't have pictures for most of their Hungarian Knights......

[Patrick Waterson]

Monty Luhmann does.

Drew Jarman also used various Essex figures.

Not sure if these are 15mm but dropping a comment on either site should elicit a response.

[rodge]

Thanks, I had seen those but looking at Somogyi's book 'The Army of King Matthais 1458-1526' some of the nobles have mounts with cloth barding (over armour?) and I'm interested in those, and those that are shielded have bouched shields, and I can't see what the Essex ones have.....

[Patrick Waterson]

None of the Essex figures appear to be shielded at all - unfortunately I am quite ignorant about this army and period and cannot help.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable?

[Duncan Head]

There was a thread on dbmmlist on this subject not long ago: a useful contribution from Pete Kershaw at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DBMMlist/conversations/messages/172243

Another Essex option if you want the shield is the Serbian EMED 68a.

[rodge]

Really useful, thanks Duncan.

[Swampster]

I finally went with Mirliton, using the sallet wearing figures from the Burgundian range. Also inspired by Somoygi's book, I gave a couple of generals a cloth barding for their horse by using green stuff over the existing metal armour (slightly filed down). I also added green stuff feathers to some helmets which are surprisingly easy and robust.

For earlier the Mirliton Condotta knights should work (though I have a feeling the armour in Germany was more German than Italian influenced). Some have a simpler barding which is easier to paint with heraldry.

I ummed and ahhed about adding shields and decided not to in the end. I think some of the Donnington shields would be the right shape though I might be tempted to make a master and then mould them from a simple push mould. I have done a few shields this way and they are pretty easy if you don't want large numbers.  I did make some winged shields but didn't use them in the end - partly to save painting as I was running out of time.

Incidentally, I also did the banners based on Somoygi's book. Most of the Hungarian armies I've seen around use the rather limited number of Hungarian flags on a couple of websites. I said I'd let Damian at Donnington have some pictures as he was interested in getting some made - must get round to that.

[rodge]

Thanks Peter
I ordered some samples from QR in Poland following your tip.
Do you have any pictures of your efforts with green stuff?
Good flags would be a real bonus....

[Swampster]

I keep intending to do some photos - it has been an age since I've updated my blog. My camera is at work so I'll try to do some next week.

[rodge]

Be good to see them Peter

Did you go with both Mirliton
CC 23 Knights in Italian style armour with sallet on walking horses
CC 24 Knights in Maximilian armour with sallet on walking horses

[Swampster]

I went with a mix of Italian and Maximilian* and also the charging and walking.
I've tended to avoid charging lancers for a while as the lances make it difficult to get contact with other bases, but I acquired a bunch of mixed figures so thought I'd better use them.

(Which is actually Gothic, despite what Mirliton call it)

[rodge]

Thanks
'Which is actually Gothic, despite what Mirliton call it'
I'll stop fretting about the Mirliton descriptor and get buying

[Duncan Head]

Eye candy only, since they're 28mm: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=440099

[rodge]

Nice......thanks.

I went on his blog and he has helpfully loaded the scans of the flags for general use
http://miniaturesoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/black-army-of-matthias-corvinus-heavy.html

[Swampster]

It is useful to have the scans of the flags.

I would have thought that the reverse of the flag would have the arms reversed - that is normally the case. The layout of some of the arms in Somoygi is a bit puzzling though, especially wrt to the facing of the Bohemian lion and the Hunyadi crow. This does seem to be based on some Medieval pictures but I suspect artistic reasons rather than this being the actual usage. E.g. in one case, the facing of the animals seems to have been reversed so that they haven't turned their back on the king in the picture.
The IHS monogram may not have been reversed though.