Stele of Staphhilos

[Patrick Waterson]

Bow, shield and sword; with reference to an earlier discussion, might this solve the conundrum about Mithridates' archers and how and why they stood up to Roman legionaries?

I might remind you that a certain person wrote in that discussion:
" The use of the bow is (except for Cretans) basically incompatible with that of the shield.  So unless we want a hypothesis whereby a unit of archers followed the swordsmen into the marsh, picking up shields and throwing away bows (in the middle of the Romans who were striking down fugitives left, right and centre) then on the basis of what Plutarch has written we are left with bow-armed swordsmen, whether they resisted or not."

I think a certain person has added the first sentence of that paragraph to his diet : did not the statue/monument discovered near Chaeronea and apparently related to the Roman victory incidentally depict a shielded swordsman with what appeared to be a bow?

My suspicion is that Staphhilos is a cavalryman, despite the lack of horse in the carving. The shield is the conundrum - the rest of the gear is very much that of riders on a variety of stelai. They are often shown accompanied by a shield bearer or an infantryman - I suspect the former as shown on some stelai from the other side of the Black Sea.  Mielczarek does say, however, that there are stelai of infantry with bow but does not show any.

Does his footwear suggest infantry or cavalry (or neither)?

And just thinking about the logic of the sculpture. If you wanted to strap a shield on to an arm while using a bow, would you strap it to the bow arm or the arrow arm? To strap it to the bow arm as per the sculpture would offer less protection and require a lot more work (5 to 7 kilos on the end of a straightened arm already struggling to hold a bow on target).

if the shield were supported by a strap (perhaps the one over his right shoulder) then maybe the weight would not be on the bow arm.  Or he could sling it behind him when using the bow and whip it round if close combat threatened.

[Andreas Johansson]

Are we seeing a complete selection of weapons the man was supposed to be able to use but not necessarily all at once?

Seems quite likely to me. After all, the picture isn't showing him in battle, it's representing him as a warrior, and showing him as capable of fighting with both bow and shield + CC weapon would presumably enhance his martial status even if involves showing a panoply unrealistic for actual fighting.

I do have some trouble seeing the left-hand item as a bow, however, due to what looks to me like a pommel above the hand. Or is that just damage to the relief?

[Duncan Head]

Is there any more context?
Is it the sculpture the funerary stele of an individual? Any inscription? Part of a building?

Google is your friend: https://wiki2.org/en/File:Roman_carving_JPG

[Erpingham]

The high resolution version through wikimedia commons is a help.

I originally thought he had a bow in his left hand but I'm no longer thinking that.  The way the "bow" is rendered is very like the cloth on the right side of his body.  The bow cuts sharply off at the bottom of the tunic - it should continue.  The upper part of the "bow" is unfortunately damaged but looks proportionately too short.  However, I'm more inclined to accept he has a bowcase with bow in it over his right shoulder.

[Duncan Head]

I originally thought he had a bow in his left hand but I'm no longer thinking that.  The way the "bow" is rendered is very like the cloth on the right side of his body.  The bow cuts sharply off at the bottom of the tunic - it should continue.  The upper part of the "bow" is unfortunately damaged but looks proportionately too short.  However, I'm more inclined to accept he has a bowcase with bow in it over his right shoulder.

The bow does continue. It doesn't "cut off" at the end of the tunic so much as at the edge of the shield. Then a short length of it is presumably concealed behind the shield, and you can see the same curved object continuing through, and below, the patch of shadow below the lower end of the shield.

Looking closer at the lines coming down from his right shoudler, I think there may be two shoulder-straps, one broader than the other; perhaps one supports the quiver and the other the shield.

[Erpingham]

The bow does continue. It doesn't "cut off" at the end of the tunic so much as at the edge of the shield. Then a short length of it is presumably concealed behind the shield, and you can see the same curved object continuing through, and below, the patch of shadow below the lower end of the shield.

I'm not convinced.  There seems a clear cut at the end of the tunic and, while I see the continuation under the shield, it would require a dramatic change of level for that to be part of the object in his hand.  The scuplture looks more competent than that. That said, the javelin seems to pass behind the hand.  Ideally, we need another picture differently lit, so we can see what is real and what a trick of the light.

Looking closer at the lines coming down from his right shoudler, I think there may be two shoulder-straps, one broader than the other; perhaps one supports the quiver and the other the shield.

Yes, that makes sense, although he is said to be in Scythian dress, which from pictures I've seen has a V neck with wide bands of embroidery just where the baldric comes across.  You are, of course, much more au fait with clothing in the area, so do you think this is an issue in the interpretation?

[Duncan Head]

while I see the continuation under the shield, it would require a dramatic change of level for that to be part of the object in his hand.

I don't see any other likely explanation for the continuation under the shield other than it being the end of the bow. It does seem to me to continue the same curve as the object in his hand, and any impression of discontinuity can be explained by the sculptor's problem with changing depth: he starts the bow by carving it on the figure, but has to finish it lower down on the flat background of the stele.

Looking closer at the lines coming down from his right shoudler, I think there may be two shoulder-straps, one broader than the other; perhaps one supports the quiver and the other the shield.

Yes, that makes sense, although he is said to be in Scythian dress, which from pictures I've seen has a V neck with wide bands of embroidery just where the baldric comes across.  You are, of course, much more au fait with clothing in the area, so do you think this is an issue in the interpretation?

I suspect "Scythian dress" is just an approximation for "long sleeves and trousers". I can't see any real indication of bands of embroidery; the tunic hem and the sleeves are the commonest places for such, and there's no sign here. And other Bosporan stelae and paintings don't often (ever?) show them.

[Jim Webster]

http://archaicwonder.tumblr.com/post/105727958526/scythian-bow-quiver-and-arrows-c-3rd-1st  gives another Scythian quiver

no bowcase though? Or was the unstrung bow just stuck in the quiver?

[aligern]

Lord knows about the attribution of this one, but its a similar weapon set and Scythian costume.
http://scythianbow.weebly.com/uploads/5/2/5/9/52598487/7794114_orig.jpg

[Swampster]

I suspect "Scythian dress" is just an approximation for "long sleeves and trousers". I can't see any real indication of bands of embroidery; the tunic hem and the sleeves are the commonest places for such, and there's no sign here. And other Bosporan stelae and paintings don't often (ever?) show them.

The stele of Rhodion son of Helios has definite bands around the neck and closure line plus (I think) down the shoulders .

[Swampster]

Bow, shield and sword; with reference to an earlier discussion, might this solve the conundrum about Mithridates' archers and how and why they stood up to Roman legionaries?

I might remind you that a certain person wrote in that discussion:
" The use of the bow is (except for Cretans) basically incompatible with that of the shield.  So unless we want a hypothesis whereby a unit of archers followed the swordsmen into the marsh, picking up shields and throwing away bows (in the middle of the Romans who were striking down fugitives left, right and centre) then on the basis of what Plutarch has written we are left with bow-armed swordsmen, whether they resisted or not."

I think a certain person has added the first sentence of that paragraph to his diet : did not the statue/monument discovered near Chaeronea and apparently related to the Roman victory incidentally depict a shielded swordsman with what appeared to be a bow?

I wasn't sure what your first comment meant at first but now I get you

The Chaeronea monument I know of just seems to be a collection of weapons, not necessarily from the same person. The shield is, IIRC, even more incompatible with a bow.
If the more recent discovery of the other trophy has been published and has some useful pics, I'd be very interested.

[Patrick Waterson]

Sadly, all I can find on the internet is numerous references to the Lion of Chaeronea.  Duncan did post a picture towards the end of our previous Chaeronea/Pontic archers discussion, and that is what I (think I) was referring to.

Winston Churchill once said: "I have often had to eat my own words, and found it a most wholesome diet."  The point I missed was that although using a shield and bow together is difficult to impossible with any sort of substantial shield (the observation is actually Gibbon's rather than mine), it is by no means impossible to carry a bow and a shield and use one or the other as the situation demands (Achaemenid Persians did it all the time).

[Duncan Head]

Lord knows about the attribution of this one, but its a similar weapon set and Scythian costume.
http://scythianbow.weebly.com/uploads/5/2/5/9/52598487/7794114_orig.jpg

We've seen that before, haven't we, and I think we were unable to come up with a convincing origin.

[Swampster]

Sadly, all I can find on the internet is numerous references to the Lion of Chaeronea.  Duncan did post a picture towards the end of our previous Chaeronea/Pontic archers discussion, and that is what I (think I) was referring to.

Seems I posted this link http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=406277&partId=1&searchText=sculpture before though I have no recollection...

I think it is an assemblage of typical Pontic gear from a variety of troops rather than the equipment of one person. If it were, then including a bow but excluding any other arms is a bit odd.
It is likely to be just one part of a larger collection - a corner piece perhaps with the actual trophy rising above. 

[Patrick Waterson]

This is not the one I think I remember - though the combination of bow and shield is interesting if intended as a panhoplon from an individual as opposed to one of a number of spear-less composites.  Agreed that it may have been part of a larger trophy; would it make sense for the peripheral decorations (such as this one) each to represent a panhoplon from a particular troop type?

Just trying to get a feel for how often bow and shield together turn up in 1st century BC sculpture for the region.