11C Scots

[Swampster]

absolutely....I think I would be more worried if I read a review of a history book that said 'swashbuckling' or 'gripping' 

'Heartwarming' and 'inspiring' are my danger signals.

[Imperial Dave]

absolutely....I think I would be more worried if I read a review of a history book that said 'swashbuckling' or 'gripping' 

'Heartwarming' and 'inspiring' are my danger signals.

heartwarming in a historical account would be quite unusual it has to be said 

[Andreas Johansson]

The Pictish thread made me aware that Alex Woolf has penned the volume of the New Edinburgh History of Scotland covering the "Pre-Feudal" period (approx. 9th to 11th centuries). Another for consideration I guess - anyone read it, or anything else in the series?

[Swampster]

absolutely....I think I would be more worried if I read a review of a history book that said 'swashbuckling' or 'gripping' 

'Heartwarming' and 'inspiring' are my danger signals.

heartwarming in a historical account would be quite unusual it has to be said 

'Read this heartwarming and life-affirming tale of how a young boy overcame the death of his father, the abandonment by his tribe and even slavery to become the beloved ruler of half the known world by the inspiring methods of adopting the sons of orphans, rewarding merit and eliminating every living creature from any city which opposed him'.

[Andreas Johansson]

The Pictish thread made me aware that Alex Woolf has penned the volume of the New Edinburgh History of Scotland covering the "Pre-Feudal" period (approx. 9th to 11th centuries). Another for consideration I guess - anyone read it, or anything else in the series?

I found this review of it, which is broadly positive but has some significant nits to pick.

[Duncan Head]

'Read this heartwarming and life-affirming tale of how a young boy overcame the death of his father, the abandonment by his tribe and even slavery to become the beloved ruler of half the known world by the inspiring methods of adopting the sons of orphans, rewarding merit and eliminating every living creature from any city which opposed him'.

Absolute brilliance.

[Anton]

While looking for Macbethian stuff, I came across a book The Picts and the Scots at War by Nick Aitchison. Anyone familiar with book or author?

Also potentially interesting seems Sally M. Foster's Picts, Gaels, and Scots. Anyone read it?

I have the Aitchison book and don't rate it at all, mind you I didn't pay much for it.  It's a collection of stuff from secondary sources and old translations. Like an average Wargames Magazine article rather than a really good wargame magazine article.

[Andreas Johansson]

I have the Aitchison book and don't rate it at all, mind you I didn't pay much for it.  It's a collection of stuff from secondary sources and old translations. Like an average Wargames Magazine article rather than a really good wargame magazine article.

Thanks. Off the wishlist it goes.

[Andreas Johansson]

Later depictions (after Somerled's revolt separated the Isles from Man) invariably show Islemen as bare-legged but that was probably the case earlier too, as Magnus Barelegs got his nickname because his favoured attire reflected his upbringing in the Isles. Irish, or at least Hiberno-Norse, influence really dates from the latter half of the 11th century when Man was ruled by branches of the ruling dynasty of Dublin so if you're building an army from that period a mix of bare-legged and trousered individuals would be ok.

Thanks. The DBMM list begins in 1050, so conventional Viking figures might be OK for the very start of the list but they should quickly become more Irish-ish.

Related question: the list also allows Dubliner, Manx, or Orcadian Viking allies: I imagine the first two lots would be at least as Hibernified as the Islesmen, but would the Orcadians be more conventionally (trouseredly) Scandinavian in apperance?

[Martin Smith]

Also potentially interesting seems Sally M. Foster's Picts, Gaels, and Scots. Anyone read it?

I have the Picts, Gaels and Scots work, by Sally Foster. Read it maybe 5-10 years ago, and thought it was a more than decent read. Better than 'coffee table standard', by far. Plenty of useful illustrations, and a well constructed and informed text.
Also have Surviving in Symbols, an Osprey sized museum shop type book by Martin Carver. A more concise run-through of Pictish evidence, with decent illustrations. Possibly aimed more at the casual reader, but also a decent read.

Martin

[Mick Hession]

Related question: the list also allows Dubliner, Manx, or Orcadian Viking allies: I imagine the first two lots would be at least as Hibernified as the Islesmen, but would the Orcadians be more conventionally (trouseredly) Scandinavian in apperance?

List notes notwithstanding, there wasn't much of a distinction between Manx, Orcadians and Islemen in the 11th century. At that time, the Isles were something of a no-man's-land contested betwen Orkney and Man. Orkney's influence waned after the death of Thorfinn the Mighty (about 1053, IIRC) and Man ultimately won out during Guthroth Crovan's reign (1079-1095). Orkneyinga Saga indicates the Orcadians retained closer links to Norway than the Norse of the Sudreyar so I'd use standard Norse figures for them. The Manx and Dubliners might be a bit more "trousered" than Islemen - the much later Book of Clanranald characterises Somerled's secession from Man in 1156 as a Gaelic rebellion against Norse oppression so you could infer that "Islemen" were a bit more Celtic / bare-legged.     

Cheers
Mick

[Andreas Johansson]

I have the Picts, Gaels and Scots work, by Sally Foster. Read it maybe 5-10 years ago, and thought it was a more than decent read. Better than 'coffee table standard', by far. Plenty of useful illustrations, and a well constructed and informed text.

Thanks. Are the illustrations central enough I should avoid the ebook option? (My e-reader doesn't do colour.)

List notes notwithstanding, there wasn't much of a distinction between Manx, Orcadians and Islemen in the 11th century. At that time, the Isles were something of a no-man's-land contested betwen Orkney and Man. Orkney's influence waned after the death of Thorfinn the Mighty (about 1053, IIRC) and Man ultimately won out during Guthroth Crovan's reign (1079-1095). Orkneyinga Saga indicates the Orcadians retained closer links to Norway than the Norse of the Sudreyar so I'd use standard Norse figures for them. The Manx and Dubliners might be a bit more "trousered" than Islemen - the much later Book of Clanranald characterises Somerled's secession from Man in 1156 as a Gaelic rebellion against Norse oppression so you could infer that "Islemen" were a bit more Celtic / bare-legged.

Thanks. Given that there's a lot of more standard Norse figures around than Isleman or Hiberno-Norse ones, any excuse to use them is helpful

[Jim Webster]

'Read this heartwarming and life-affirming tale of how a young boy overcame the death of his father, the abandonment by his tribe and even slavery to become the beloved ruler of half the known world by the inspiring methods of adopting the sons of orphans, rewarding merit and eliminating every living creature from any city which opposed him'.

Absolute brilliance.

I just want the isbn number :-)

[Martin Smith]

I have the Picts, Gaels and Scots work, by Sally Foster. Read it maybe 5-10 years ago, and thought it was a more than decent read. Better than 'coffee table standard', by far. Plenty of useful illustrations, and a well constructed and informed text.

Thanks. Are the illustrations central enough I should avoid the ebook option? (My e-reader doesn't do colour.)

Majority of the illustrations/photo's are black and white (plus 6 glossy colour pics in the centre. I don't think you'd lose much from not having the colour pics.
M

[Andreas Johansson]

Majority of the illustrations/photo's are black and white (plus 6 glossy colour pics in the centre. I don't think you'd lose much from not having the colour pics.

Thanks again