What sort of battle reports do we want to see?

[Erpingham]

Very thorough Dave.  I suspect you may have to compromise on your highest standards if Chris' wish is to be fulfilled - having a proper lighting and camera set up is not something a lot of folk have and might discourage people from submitting.  I think your middle and low end categories are promising.  My own attempts with my phone camera can produce decent snapshots but it will lack depth of field for the wide shots both you and Patrick prefer for illustrative purposes.  Lighting is a big bugbear - if just shooting a unit or some figures being painted you can stick them by a window but a battle is a bit less mobile.  I will carry out further experiments for my own amusement and see if I can improve.

Patrick's kind offer of the services of the Slingshot team for diagrams I'm sure is OK for Slingshot content (Justin did me a great one for an article) but are they going to want to be creating blow by blow diagrams for the forum?  Does that, in fact, move so far from spontaneity that it won't fit with the way people approach the forum?  This is another of those meta questions about "publishing" on the forum, I suppose.

[Imperial Dave]

Very thorough Dave.  I suspect you may have to compromise on your highest standards if Chris' wish is to be fulfilled - having a proper lighting and camera set up is not something a lot of folk have and might discourage people from submitting.  I think your middle and low end categories are promising.  My own attempts with my phone camera can produce decent snapshots but it will lack depth of field for the wide shots both you and Patrick prefer for illustrative purposes.  Lighting is a big bugbear - if just shooting a unit or some figures being painted you can stick them by a window but a battle is a bit less mobile.  I will carry out further experiments for my own amusement and see if I can improve.

Patrick's kind offer of the services of the Slingshot team for diagrams I'm sure is OK for Slingshot content (Justin did me a great one for an article) but are they going to want to be creating blow by blow diagrams for the forum?  Does that, in fact, move so far from spontaneity that it won't fit with the way people approach the forum?  This is another of those meta questions about "publishing" on the forum, I suppose.

yes, a thorny question about standards. I am not trying to 'force' people down the route of adhering to a set of battle/article picture 'rules' just musings on what I think might look ok. I certainly wouldnt want to discourage people from submitting rather I feel that guidance on such things like this and suggestions for ways to convey a battle is the way to go. At the end of the day, a battle report is far better than no battle report I just like pictures but realise this is not everyone's cup of tea or capability. For me its a nice to have not a must have 

[gavindbm]

My favourite site for photo illustrated battle reports is the Italian DBMM site tagmata.it by Lorenzo. 

[Imperial Dave]

My favourite site for photo illustrated battle reports is the Italian DBMM site tagmata.it by Lorenzo.

thanks for that, not seen it before an the reports are very good with the right level and quality of photos for me

[Jim Webster]

personally I'm happier with just a plan of the battle. If I want pictures I can buy the professional magazines with glossy paper

[Prufrock]

It's one of those slightly touchy topics, isn't it? Everyone has their own ideas about what should go into a battle report, but trying to write to others' tastes is always a thankless task.

I like variety, and enjoy different writers' individual idiosyncrasies. Blogs mean that we are spoiled for quality photos, and I think it is a mistake for reports in Slingshot to try to compete with blog reports (or pro photography as seen in the glossies) on the visuals front. But as mentioned previously, where Ss does have points of difference is seen in Justin Swanton's graphical skills (we've all enjoyed his lovely maps and battle diagrams, and when he is involved the visuals are always worth the column space) and in the knowledge base of our members.

Another thing that is important is context. Lorenzo's reports at Tagmata.it are beautiful to behold, but Spartans against Marian Romans,  and Frankenstein Marians at that, combining Caesar's tenth legion with Scipio's jumbos and some Gallic skirmishers very far from home? It may as well be WWII Germans fighting WWII Japanese. I've played pretty fast and loose on that score myself, but while it's fine for fun games and for blogs, I would not want to see that in Slingshot unless there was context for it (e.g. a showdown between two champions in rules X which angled in on the history between them and how they attempted to outfox each other).

But as far as the forum is concerned, I'm glad to see anything here. If someone is prepared to take the time to write up / photograph and post a report, well done to them, much appreciation for their efforts, and I'd certainly not want to see any posting of criticism.

[Erpingham]

My favourite site for photo illustrated battle reports is the Italian DBMM site tagmata.it by Lorenzo.

thanks for that, not seen it before an the reports are very good with the right level and quality of photos for me

Having looked at the site, the blogger is clearly focused (is that a pun?) on technical illustration rather than the art of pretty figures, which is suitable to the task in hand.  The annotation helps to identify the troop types.  It has the advantage to fans of DBMM that he doesn't waste much on fancy description, keeping comments to the gameplay.  To non-DBMM fans though its hard to understand what going on and a bit dull (IMO).  For technical illustration though good to have as an exemplar.  Bit beyong my current capabilities alas.

Following on Jim's point that he'd rather have a plan, I've spent a few hours exploring simple ways of drawing wargames maps.  I picked up on an idea for using Powerpoint and, as I had some basic understanding from work, thought I'd give it a go.  The result is now posted attached to the original Rivers of Babylon report.

I'd say the result is workmanlike and a bit schematic rather than precise.  I think I know how to create a sequence of maps using copy/paste, which I might explore further.  But it does show something other than a scanned sketch is doable in a couple of hours using standard software, even by the less skilled of us.

[dwkay57]

In response to Anthony's comments on using Powerpoint, I tried using this with diagrams in some of my earlier full battle reports that are lurking on my website but found it took too long to do. I still use Powerpoint for these full reports but now annotate photographs. To me this moves it away from looking like a board game to one using figures and terrain. My photography isn't that great either but some of the editing tools now available help a bit.

The only drawback to this approach is that I have to keep remembering to take the photographs on a regular basis which can slow the game down but as I'm fighting solo with no real time restrictions (other than when the wife wants the dining room table back) it doesn't matter too much.

[Jim Webster]

one danger about setting too high a standard of artwork, photos or maps is that you deter people without decent photography capability from submitting
Maps, yes, the editor can have somebody do something with it because they've got the facilities, but photos have to be taken there at the day

[Patrick Waterson]

Patrick's kind offer of the services of the Slingshot team for diagrams I'm sure is OK for Slingshot content (Justin did me a great one for an article) but are they going to want to be creating blow by blow diagrams for the forum?

Sadly but understandably, only for Slingshot - but using Powerpoint sounds like a good idea.  On the question of how many diagrams would be required, I think three would suffice in most cases: the initial lineup (perhaps with a few arrows to give a general idea of initial moves), the crisis, where the battle is about to be decided (perhaps with a few arrows to show how things went) and optionally a final position when the battle has been decided.  If there is complex manoeuvring or if play takes an unexpected turn, another diagram between the initial and crisis shots might serve better than a final position illustration.

Dave's point about the length of time spent is one to consider.  If one has a background map template of sorts and a file with standard unit blocks that one can utilise, it can speed things up measurably.

[gavindbm]

I think all the battle reports I've written in recent years for Slingshot have been illustrated using the power point (or word) diagram approach.

I believe you can use the annotated photo approach (which I have never done) or the diagram approach - or push the boat out and use both. 

But you can also just go for a short text description. 

I find a long text description without some form of illustration is rather hard to follow - unless it sticks to first person style or is humourous.

[Imperial Dave]

I think all the battle reports I've written in recent years for Slingshot have been illustrated using the power point (or word) diagram approach.

I believe you can use the annotated photo approach (which I have never done) or the diagram approach - or push the boat out and use both. 

But you can also just go for a short text description. 

I find a long text description without some form of illustration is rather hard to follow - unless it sticks to first person style or is humourous.

I do tend to agree but I really feel the emphasis should be on getting more people to submit battle reports. I just think some guidance for those unfamiliar or unsure could be used as encouragement not a reason not to 

[DougM]

My own preference is narrative. But I dispute the need for any sort of complex photographic setup. I simply use a reasonably good (Galaxy s6) camera phone, and you can get excellent results. This one is a bit compromised by the need to shrink the image - but it is perfectly adequate, and the originals are good enough for magazine print quality. 

(I have mine set to use approx 5mb per picture, and depending on magazine they will generally use higher than this for full page spreads, but half page and under it is fine. I also have a very good DSLR camera plus tripod and flash, and it simply isn't worth it for most purposes.)

Bear in mind as well, the image below has been shrunk to 20% of the original picture)

[Erpingham]

Thanks Doug.  I agree a modern phone camera should be able to produce a workable photo in a well lit situation - I just need to work on that last bit, as the table is in an attic with one small window .  But at least I have a permanent table, so shouldn't complain.

I'm struggling with annotations at moment - mind telling a novice what you used for yours?

And to echo Holly, we mustn't make a set of requirements so strict and onorous that even less people put in reports.  What I'd like to be able to draw from this is some idea of what we are looking for here, as guidance to would be contributors.  So far, it seems to me we have a very varied set of preferences - no surprise there - but I think we are getting a bit closer on images and plans.  We don't expect glossy pictures illustrating terrain or figures but rather functional photography that helps us understand the layout and way the story unfolds.  Plans can be basic, again with the same over-riding purpose.  Turning to text, it  should be easy to follow, giving a narrative of the battle and pulling out rules points where they are relevant to explain why certain things happened.  Does this seem to be a reasonable summing up so far?

One thing that has also occured to me during this conversation is there is a set of choices for members to report a battle.

For a quick, simple and limited detailed record, we have Last Game You Played.  If you want to give a little more detail and have a little more time to prepare, we have Battle Reports.  For a full report, perhaps considering more extensively a battle reconstruction or exploring a ruleset, we have a Slingshot piece.  For Slingshot pieces, we have the possibility of the Slingshot team doing work to produce plans and graphics.

[Imperial Dave]

For a quick, simple and limited detailed record, we have Last Game You Played.  If you want to give a little more detail and have a little more time to prepare, we have Battle Reports.  For a full report, perhaps considering more extensively a battle reconstruction or exploring a ruleset, we have a Slingshot piece.  For Slingshot pieces, we have the possibility of the Slingshot team doing work to produce plans and graphics.

good points......and of course there is always the option to 'upgrade' a forum report to a slingshot report as well