Figures for Sicilian Saracens

[Andreas Johansson]

A longstanding unfulfilled ambition of mine (one of many, it has to be admitted) is getting a Hohenstaufen Sicilian (1194-1266) army out of my 13C collection. The chief thing missing is a wodge of Sicilian Saracen archers, who acc'd Ian Heath should look largely like Andalusians with some Greek influence (and apparently very little influence from their Latin Christian neighbours and overlords). So I thought I'd ask the resident cognoscenti a) whether they agree this is would be an appropriate look, and b) whether they have any 15mm figures to recommend for the role? Ideally the figures should be close to Mirliton in height and heft because the rest of the army will be mainly from them.

Mirliton do make Muslim archers for the High Medieval period, but I don't think they're appropriate because they look more Middle Eastern than Andalusian and they're too heavily armoured.

ETA: Also, the Mirliton Medieval Muslim range is significantly overscale compared to the Communal and Crusade ranges from which my Christian troops would be. You'd think a single manufacturer would keep a consistent scale between ranges of historical enemies, but you'd be wrong.

[Patrick Waterson]

Although not ranking among the cognoscenti, I would suggest the illustrations in the Liber ad Honorem Augusti as a possible guide.  Unfortunately few of these include archers, and it is unclear whether the archers in this one represent Saracens, although the composite-looking bow carried by the man with arrow in hand is encouraging: compare the archer contingents in this picture, also from the manuscript; the 'Saracen' archers picture is an enlargement of the middle row.

Peter and Duncan will be better guides to the subject.

[Andreas Johansson]

Unfortunately few of these include archers, and it is unclear whether the archers in this one represent Saracens, although the composite-looking bow carried by the man with arrow in hand is encouraging:

The file name proclaims those men to be Czechs, which may be supported by the legend, which best as I can make out reads boemij "Bohemians".

(It is not entirely clear to me if this legend applies to the archers or the armoured men above them - but probably the archers as the legends in the upper left seem to be above what they describe. Unfortunately, I can't make out any of the legends in the larger picture to confirm.)

Nevertheless, the archers are rather similar to Heath's illustration of a Sicilian Saracen one, except that that one curiously seems to have simple self-bow.

[Andreas Johansson]

Heath's archer is apparently based on this carving from Monreale Cathedral - the archer is 2nd from the right of the four figures (and obviously has a recurved bow).

[Duncan Head]

There's also http://warfare2.netai.net/12/Trani-Archer.htm for another representation, and Amatuccio's article at http://warfare2.netai.net/12/Trani-Archer.htm which says (based on early Angevin documents) that "Each archer was armed with a bow and a bow case with twenty-five arrows. Their only defensive armor consisted of spaulders, a mail shirt, and roella (buckler)".

At least the Mirliton figures have the round shield ...

[Andreas Johansson]

There's also http://warfare2.netai.net/12/Trani-Archer.htm for another representation, and Amatuccio's article at http://warfare2.netai.net/12/Trani-Archer.htm which says (based on early Angevin documents) that "Each archer was armed with a bow and a bow case with twenty-five arrows. Their only defensive armor consisted of spaulders, a mail shirt, and roella (buckler)".

At least the Mirliton figures have the round shield ...

Thanks: but you appear to've posted the first link twice.

If they were mailed the Mirliton figures seem more appropriate (and the DBMM classification as BwI/PsO as perhaps harsh).

[Duncan Head]

Sorry - the Amatuccio article link should have been http://deremilitari.org/2013/07/saracen-archers-in-southern-italy/   

[Erpingham]

The bronze doors by Barisano of Trani at Trani and Ravello are worth a look.  I'm struggling to find a copyable example but a Google search will bring them up.  Note the black archer with what appears to be a loincloth a long robe tucked into his belt as well as the guys in turbans.

Addendum : I found a better image and realised I'd written rubbish    The long robe makes more sense - nakedness in North African troops at this time would be very unlikely for religious reasons.

[Duncan Head]

The archer I linked to - http://warfare2.netai.net/12/Trani-Archer.htm - is very similar to the one from Ravello in Anthony's link. Same artist, different cathedral. I hadn't realised there were two such similar works.

[Erpingham]

The archer I linked to - http://warfare2.netai.net/12/Trani-Archer.htm - is very similar to the one from Ravello in Anthony's link. Same artist, different cathedral. I hadn't realised there were two such similar works.

Threw me too, especially as the artist comes from one of the towns.

Here is another guy in a turban from Ravello.

[Duncan Head]

Now he's really nice - better preserved than some of the others and very "Saracen".

[Erpingham]

Now he's really nice - better preserved than some of the others and very "Saracen".

Would you go with turban wrapped round a helmet, Duncan?

[Andreas Johansson]

Sorry - the Amatuccio article link should have been http://deremilitari.org/2013/07/saracen-archers-in-southern-italy/

Thanks again. I'm surprised that mail shirt, spaulders, and shield merits an "only" as infantry armour in the 13C. Apart from the apparent lack of a helmet, that's surely tolerably heavy protection?

Also, the illustrated ones seem to be unarmoured.

[Duncan Head]

Now he's really nice - better preserved than some of the others and very "Saracen".

Would you go with turban wrapped round a helmet, Duncan?

It could be either a helmet or a cap - impossible to tell. But if they wore turbans wrapped round caps, it would explain the lack of helmets in the inventories Amatuccio drew on.

[Erpingham]

Sorry - the Amatuccio article link should have been http://deremilitari.org/2013/07/saracen-archers-in-southern-italy/

Thanks again. I'm surprised that mail shirt, spaulders, and shield merits an "only" as infantry armour in the 13C. Apart from the apparent lack of a helmet, that's surely tolerably heavy protection?

Also, the illustrated ones seem to be unarmoured.

The ones on the bronze doors are nearly a hundred years earlier.  The Angevins' are only 200 hundred strong, as opposed to the thousands used earlier.  So I'd speculate tranformation from massed units to smaller specialist groups who could be expected to have better kit.  Given there were elite groups earlier, these might also warrant the upmarket kit.