Phalanx drift to the right: movement or contraction or both?

[Justin Swanton]

The discussion on othismos triggered this topic in my mind.

From what's been discussed, my take is that othismos is unworkable unless the shields of each file overlap considerably, creating an interlocking shieldwall in which one file is unable to push individually into the enemy formation where it would be butchered. Overlapping shields means that one shield is pressing against two or three others - friendly and enemy - and hence spreading the pressure. I notice that the shield rims are subject to a lot of stress which perhaps explains their relative thickness compared to the rest of the shield



This however raises a problem. The manuals give the hoplite file a space of 2 cubits with shields just touching or slightly overlapping, and this is a natural measures since shields were almost certainly used as measuring sticks when the files formed up alongside each other. So how do you get the substantial overlaps necessary for othismos to work properly?

According to Thucydides hoplite phalanxes tended to move to the right for two reasons: a) so the rightmost file leader would  remove his exposed right flank from danger, and b) as each individual hoplite sought the shelter of the shield of the man to his right:

Before they had actually closed a thought occurred to Agis. All armies, when engaging, are apt to thrust outwards their right wing; and either of the opposing forces tends to outflank his enemy's left with his own right, because every soldier individually fears for his exposed side, which he tries to cover with the shield of his comrade on the right, conceiving that the closer he draws in the better he will be protected. The first man in the front rank of the right wing is originally responsible for the deflection, for he always wants to withdraw from the enemy his own exposed side, and the rest of the army, from a like fear, follow his example.  - Thucydides V.71

There's a difficulty here though. If all the men just move to the right the same angle and distance then nobody will get more protection from his neighbour's shield than he originally had. So with the idea of diagonal movement goes the notion of contraction: each man gets his shield partially behind the shield of the man on his right, and the files contract from 3 feet in width to something more like 2 feet. This creates the necessary shield overlap required for effective othismos besides giving each file leader the protection he needs. It also means a phalanx line will contract quite substantially, losing a quarter or more of its original width. This, plus the move to the right, will leave the left flank impressively overlapped.

Thoughts?

[RichT]

Thoughts?

From what's been discussed, my take is that othismos is unworkable

Agreed. Shall we leave it at that?

The manuals give the hoplite file a space of 2 cubits

Not really - remember, there are no manuals for hoplites (classical Greek one hand short spear hoplites). The manuals that give the two cubit spacing are all talking about hoplites 'armed in the Macedonian fashion' ie with a two handed sarisa. This is often applied anachronistically to Classical hoplites, but it shouldn't be - we just don't know what the file spacing was for Classical hoplites (it's a not unreasonable guess that it was also two cubits, but it is a guess).

Otherwise I wouldn't disagree with what you describe - I imagine the right drift would contian an element of squashing up as much as an element of moving right - I doubt the whole formation moved perfectly rightward without (involuntarily) changing its intervals at all. Most hoplites were amateurs with little drill, practice or training, so we shouldn't envisage precise, rigid drill moves, but rather a more or less well organised crowd.

[aligern]

That sounds a bit too disorganised Richard. A hoplite phalanx has quite rigid parameters for its ranks and files . The file leader and closer are experiencd and know what they have to do. Within tge phalanx there is no mobility , a man from file a does not migrate to file c. A ohalanx might struggle to wheel in formation, but I expect they could advance, retreat, turn left and right and 190% move at different speeds and halt and start in unison.  Plus, again the better ones, can order forward specific ranks of younger hoplites in order to deal with irritating peltasts.

[RichT]

Well according to Thucydides they couldn't advance, at least not in a straight line.

But OK, I knew I was courting trouble with the word 'crowd'. Dial it back a bit. I just think hoplite drill would be more Militia or maybe Trained Band standard, than Trooping the Colour.

[Imperial Dave]

must be covered elsewhere but if the shields arent exactly face on, they would tend to slant/angle slightly to the left because of the natural position of the arm which would encourage right hand drift

[Jim Webster]

Well according to Thucydides they couldn't advance, at least not in a straight line.

But OK, I knew I was courting trouble with the word 'crowd'. Dial it back a bit. I just think hoplite drill would be more Militia or maybe Trained Band standard, than Trooping the Colour.

given that city state hoplites were militia, with less drill, I don't think a lot of them would reach even trained band standard who did at least drill 

[PMBardunias]

From what's been discussed, my take is that othismos is unworkable

Agreed. Shall we leave it at that?

It is incumbent upon you to explain why it is unworkable, especially in light of my working it. I am fine with any argument that says we have misinterpreted the reading to describe pushing, but statements like this, based on no actual evidence, can no longer be thrown about unchallenged.


As to Justin's question, both.  I have experienced this first hand as the right-most man in an advancing phalanx of 4 ranks.  I think it was Fraser, a century ago who noted that you will veer right if you move your shield in front of you from the left side. This definitely happens. The twist of your torso makes you veer to the right.  Now as the rightmost man, I did not want to veer, so I had to use the spotting of two consecutive points in the distance to stay on track. I spent half my time pushing back on the rank to the left of me.  Because I did not veer, they converged to a smaller frontage.  Now there are instances where veering was essentially harnessed as a tactic, the Thebans at Nemea for example, and here I cannot say if convergence happened as well.

[Erpingham]

An interesting point there Paul that you could stay the drift by maintaining your line and resisting lateral pressure.  Other file leaders ought to have been able to do the same, both in your experiment and in history.  We might suggest that the file leaders in the historical example(s) weren't as skilled as they might have been.  Alternatively, that it was accepted as something that always happened and no one looked to correct it.

[Justin Swanton]

An interesting point there Paul that you could stay the drift by maintaining your line and resisting lateral pressure.  Other file leaders ought to have been able to do the same, both in your experiment and in history.  We might suggest that the file leaders in the historical example(s) weren't as skilled as they might have been.  Alternatively, that it was accepted as something that always happened and no one looked to correct it.

I'm guessing that the file leaders were quite happy with the rightwards drift/contraction since they initiated it. It gave them more protection, it enabled othismos to work, and for the rightmost file leader, it got him clear of any danger of an attack on his exposed right flank (besides putting him in a good position for a nice little outflanking move of his own).

Little tiny detail: Thucydides says: "The first man in the front rank of the right wing is originally responsible for the deflection, for he always wants to withdraw from the enemy his own exposed side". But if the rightmost file leader knows the enemy phalanx will contract towards its own right and away from him, why does he move to the right in the first place?

[Jim Webster]

I have noticed, several times when I've had to cross 'featureless' areas in fog or the dark, that I've a natural tendency to drift to the right anyway. It appears when there are no landmarks to aim at

[Erpingham]

I have noticed, several times when I've had to cross 'featureless' areas in fog or the dark, that I've a natural tendency to drift to the right anyway. It appears when there are no landmarks to aim at

Curious how the weather affects ones politics   Seriosly though, are you right handed - do people drift to the dominant side?

[Jim Webster]

I have noticed, several times when I've had to cross 'featureless' areas in fog or the dark, that I've a natural tendency to drift to the right anyway. It appears when there are no landmarks to aim at

Curious how the weather affects ones politics   Seriosly though, are you right handed - do people drift to the dominant side?

That's where it gets even more interesting, I'm definitely left handed 

[PMBardunias]

An interesting point there Paul that you could stay the drift by maintaining your line and resisting lateral pressure.  Other file leaders ought to have been able to do the same, both in your experiment and in history.  We might suggest that the file leaders in the historical example(s) weren't as skilled as they might have been.  Alternatively, that it was accepted as something that always happened and no one looked to correct it.

This is true. The question becomes was there value in ending up with overlapped shields.

[RichT]

From what's been discussed, my take is that othismos is unworkable

Agreed. Shall we leave it at that?

It is incumbent upon you to explain why it is unworkable, especially in light of my working it. I am fine with any argument that says we have misinterpreted the reading to describe pushing, but statements like this, based on no actual evidence, can no longer be thrown about unchallenged.

Whoa! My comment (quoting Justin, if you didn't notice) was intended light heartedly as indicated by the smiley. I have explained at very considerable length why I am not convinced by scrum models of hoplite fighting, and have adduced copious evidence - do feel free to read some old threads or articles in Slingshot. I freely admit that I may be wrong, that the scrum models (classic or crowd) may be right, and that it's a tricky problem all round, at best, but one thing I have definitely not done is 'throw statements about' without evidence.

As to walking in a straight line - yes it is hard - in fog especially it is very easy to walk in a circle.

Justin's point, that if both sides drifted right neither really needed to, is a good one, to which I guess the answer may be that it wasn't a rational choice sort of thing, so much as something that just happened, and also maybe we set a lot of store by this passage because it is one of the few bits of hard data there are about hoplite battles, but maybe really it's more of an off the cuff observation by Thucydides than a hard and fast rule (closer in spirit to 'the British army always fights its battles on the join of two maps', if not quite that flippant). Maybe?

[Justin Swanton]

Justin's point, that if both sides drifted right neither really needed to, is a good one, to which I guess the answer may be that it wasn't a rational choice sort of thing, so much as something that just happened, and also maybe we set a lot of store by this passage because it is one of the few bits of hard data there are about hoplite battles, but maybe really it's more of an off the cuff observation by Thucydides than a hard and fast rule (closer in spirit to 'the British army always fights its battles on the join of two maps', if not quite that flippant). Maybe?

Paul more-or-less gave the answer, now that I think about it:

I think it was Fraser, a century ago who noted that you will veer right if you move your shield in front of you from the left side. This definitely happens. The twist of your torso makes you veer to the right.  Now as the rightmost man, I did not want to veer, so I had to use the spotting of two consecutive points in the distance to stay on track. I spent half my time pushing back on the rank to the left of me.

If the rightmost man wants an overlap in the first place, he wouldn't have a reason to try and compensate for the natural tendency to veer right, augmented by the constant pressure on his left by the man in that adjacent file. He'd go with the flow since it tactically suits the situation (and ensures him additional protection on his right flank).