Roman Army (Republican)

[Patrick Waterson]

Topic starter.

[Mark]

25mm/28mm ranges (* = LBMS transfers available; also do not forget VVV's transfer line):

Early/Mid Republican

Old Glory
Foundry
* Crusader
1st Corps
* Renegade
Gripping Beast
Elite Miniatures
* Aventine
Navigator/Magister Militum
* Companion
Newline
Essex

Italian Allies:
* Aventine
* Gorgon
Redoubt
* GB

Coming soon (hard plastic):
Victrix
Agema

Quality wise, from what I hear the OG are apparently not their best work, but I'm not a fan of OG generally (I generally hear the excuse "but they paint up well"); the Renegade don't look great either.

Size:
- smaller range = GB, older Foundry ranges, Navigator, Newline
- larger = A&A, Crusader, Old Glory, newer Foundry, Aventine

I have the GB, Crusader and some recently acquired Aventines.

Caesarian Roman:
* GB
* Foundry
Companion
Wargames Factory (ahem)
Old Glory

[gavindbm]

Slowly painting some 25/28mm Punic war Romans and was wondering what the evidence was for the look of the Italian Allied Legions/Ala(?).

In my 15mm army, I have used the same figures for both 'pure' Roman legions and the Italian ally legions...but should I ?

Is there any evidence to suggest different armour or helmet crests?  I assume basic weapons are the same (i.e. pila or spear, and sword).

Thanks in advance,

Gavin

[aligern]

Pace a reply from a real expert I would have thought that they looked the same as Roman legions because.

Roman style is Italic style
The Roman way of War necessitated certain kit, big shield that wraps the body, nasty slash and stab sword, a helmet (and let's face it Roman helmets are copies of Celtic or Greek helmets), plum, Italian kardiophylax or Celtic mail on the body. The Utalian allies fight the same way as the Romans.

When the Italians rebel its a hard fought war , that implies they can to to toe it with the Romans.

Roy

[Paul Innes]

One slight addendum to availability of 25mm transfers - LBMS do make some for 1st Corps.  They are not mentioned on the LBMS website itself, for some reason, but they are available directly from 1st Corps.  Never quite understood this...

As for equipment, I used the same figures for Latin socii legions as for the Romans in the Second Punic War period.  I don't really have many, but my other Italians do have a range of equipment to make them stand out more from the legions.  If I were building an earlier army (sort of Camillan as opposed to sort of Polybian) I'd differentiate a bit more, just to give some extra flavour.  I'd probably also go with blank shields.

I hope that somebody somewhere might find these ramblings of some use!

Paul

[Mark G]

I would be inclined to differentiate the camillan era allies from the mid republic allies.

it strikes me that the early republicans were still experimenting a bit with the maniple system - principes still armed with spear, for example suggests a cautious adoption of more flexible unit size and the use of supporting lines but not of a wholesale acceptance of the sword and heavy javelin combination.

As such, the early social legions are possibly not party to this experiment, and so would remain in their own style - which offers the opportunity to differentiate.

then you get into exactly what the differences were, and as we are looking at troops from the flatter areas at this stage, you have more of a standard heavy infantry choice rather than the Samnite influence.

plus, if you standardise them all from the moment the republic is declared, it all gets a bit boring.

Our tactica guys did his for their on-going empire campaign - taking an encounter with Pyrrhus as the change over point (which is as good a reason as any, there are others) - they had the early republic with pila hastatii only, then two lines of spearmen with a rule allowing the triarii to be the unit breaking which counts for division morale, and the Italian allies as just a single large unit of foot.

[Patrick Waterson]

There will be an article in Slingshot 287 delineating the Roman Republican army from 509 BC up to our Polybian 'comfort zone' - it is surprising how much information there is in our sources, notably the oft-overlooked Dionysius of Halicarnassus.

No painting tips, though.

[Mark]

It might not make 287 (I seem to remember promising it would though).

BTW I acquired the following yesterday*:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illustrated-Encyclopedia-Uniforms-Roman-World/dp/0754823873/

It's actually very good indeed, for its type. Despite Amazon saying it is by Kevin Kiley, he's the artist (and has a pretty good combo Photoshop/painting combination style, which is becoming more common but which is quite difficult to pull off well). The words are by Jeremy Black, from the University of Exeter, who I guess is sufficiently prolific a writer that most people will have heard of him.

If you're used to buying Ospreys for the plates, this is about 10 Ospreys (where the plates are just the standing figures, not the dioramas) for the price of 2.

* I ordered it a while ago, but had it sent to my previous office. One of my work colleagues finally passed it on yesterday, along with a number of pointed comments about whether I was into uniforms. I told her they weren't really uniforms, the title was because it was part of a series on uniforms. I recommended the rest of the series. Cue more pointed comments.

[Duncan Head]

BTW I acquired the following yesterday*:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illustrated-Encyclopedia-Uniforms-Roman-World/dp/0754823873/

It's actually very good indeed, for its type.

I'm surprised. The first two reviews on amazon.co.uk just about spelled "avoid like the plague" to me.

[Mark]

BTW I acquired the following yesterday*:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illustrated-Encyclopedia-Uniforms-Roman-World/dp/0754823873/

It's actually very good indeed, for its type.

I'm surprised. The first two reviews on amazon.co.uk just about spelled "avoid like the plague" to me.

Well, here's a telling quote from one:

The task of providing an easily accessible and well-researched overview of the development of Rome's military forces (and those of her enemies!) from the Republic to the fall of Constantinople is no mean feat, and I am sure it would overwhelm even the most enterprising and erudiate (sic) of authors.

I'm not btw picking on the typo, I just thought I should leave the quote verbatim.

Anyhow, I didn't buy it as an overview of the development of Rome's military forces and those of her enemies, I bought it for the illustrations. It may be fairly derivative but there is more than is available in Connolly/Warry/Sumner/various Ospreys, notably the Byzantine illustrations I haven't seen before in this form. The overview material is fine. If I wanted to look up detailed background, I'd look it up in something else.