Gallic and German cavalry long in Roman service.

[bigredbat]

I've got to model quite a few of these for Thapsus and Pharsalus, and have found myself wondering whether the appearance of these might have changed, over time, when long in Roman service, and away from Gaul. Labienus' cavalry, for instance, served in the conquest of Gaul, the Greek campaign, the African war and, finally, in Spain. Might their dress or equipment have changed along the way? Is it possible that some regular features might have crept in, such as shield colours or simple designs?

Any ideas gratefully received- I'm keep that they be Gallic horse "with a twist", as I can't face collecting another 50-odd who look just the same as the previous 50-odd. :-)

[aligern]

Might I suggest that recruitment worked on the basis of a contract with a 'nobleman' to bring in a comitatus to Roman service. He might well be contracted to provide a certain number of warriors with mounts and equipment and thus bring his own men and some unattached warriors that jhad come in under his standard. The Gauls certainly had such groups of retainers and Tacitus describes a similar situation with the Germans. I'd further suggest that younger sons or a brother without prospects at home would be the likely leader. There is plenty of evidence for both nationalities splitting tribes and half migrating. That implies that , with a settled tribe could easily transfer to splitting a warband .
Another example of such mercenaries would be the Soldurii who served as bodyguards in Aquitanian armies and are referred to by Caesar.
The evidence from tombstones suggests that Celtic cavalry had servants who came as part of the package and the superior pay of a cavalryman would support such a squire.
Such groups , coming mostly from one tribe will likely have  arrived with a degree of uniformity because the manufacture of armour, shields and weapons will have had quite a degree of uniformity through being provided by the same workshops.  German Symmachoi on Trajan's column are shown with uniform shield shapes, helmets and hairstyles within each group, but differing from other groups. Normal terms for hired in barbarian cavalry are that losses to equipment are made up by the employer. So if your horse was killed you would be remounted by the state. This probably applied to helmets , shields, swords, mailcoats. So again the unit would tend towards uniformity.
Lastly  you have to avoid blue on blue incidents. At Gergovia Caesar's Aeduan allies served with the opposite shoulder bared by the cloak to that of other, presumably hostile Gauls. That, however, was a short term expedient, A General would have a range of options as to how to distinguish his auxiliary units and I bet he would choose shield colour, if not device. Its easy, its quick  and effective.
So, after service for several years I suspect that there would be a high degree of uniformity amongst auxiliary units
Roy

[bigredbat]

Thanks- that's along the lines I've been considering- a shield colour for each unit, with some of the shields over-painted with Celtic designs.  Perhaps some similarly-coloured helmet plumes.  Possibly one or two Hellenistic cavalry helmets, acquired in Greece?

Presumably clothing would remain varied in colour.

[Jim Webster]

Also remember that these would almost certainly be recruited as single men, but in the way of things, they would acquire 'wives' or similar. We read in Livy of Numidians who have liaisons with Italian women in Italy.
This means that if the man has a acquired a Greek wife, his tunic is more likely to be cut in Greek style than Gallic, and of course the material she made if from would be sourced locally, not imported from Gaul.
So I'd expect them to move away from tradition patterns to colours and patterns seen more locally. I suspect they would probably still keep the trousers though
Jim

[Mark G]

I take it you too lost the right to pick you own clothes after marriage, Jim.

[Jim Webster]

I take it you too lost the right to pick you own clothes after marriage, Jim.

Remember these chaps aren't so much picking clothes as having their wife make them from the material they traded or spun

I'm not sure when buying clothes off the peg became the normal way of doing things, but from my reading I suspect it was after our period

But in direct answer to your question, I tend to pick up my clothes from the vans that still travel round trading with farmers and my lady wife has washed her hands entirely of my clothes choice 

[Andreas Johansson]

I'm not sure when buying clothes off the peg became the normal way of doing things, but from my reading I suspect it was after our period

Acc'd WP, in the Western world during the 19C for men and early 20C for women.

But at least for the upper social strata, the previous standard was of course not having your wife or mother doing it, but going to a tailor. When that became usual I have little idea, nor if it ever penetrated all the way down the social scale.

[Jim Webster]

I'm not sure when buying clothes off the peg became the normal way of doing things, but from my reading I suspect it was after our period

Acc'd WP, in the Western world during the 19C for men and early 20C for women.

But at least for the upper social strata, the previous standard was of course not having your wife or mother doing it, but going to a tailor. When that became usual I have little idea, nor if it ever penetrated all the way down the social scale.

I suspect that whilst the idea didn't penetrate down the social scale the clothes did, second hand clothing passed down though society, Samuel Pepys received garments as gifts from wealthier friends and his father was apparently an accomplished tailor and would 'restyle' them to fit.
On the other hand in the 19th century there appears to be the growing of a 'ready to wear' market, perhaps driven by supplying the navy as each ship would sail carrying an awful lot of clothes for the crews

[Erpingham]

If we take the example of the Middle Ages, we should not forget the second-hand market.  As wealthier people renewed their clothes, their old clothes passed down the social chain, either to their household or resold.  This may be as close to "ready to wear" clothing as it came. 

[Jim Webster]

If we take the example of the Middle Ages, we should not forget the second-hand market.  As wealthier people renewed their clothes, their old clothes passed down the social chain, either to their household or resold.  This may be as close to "ready to wear" clothing as it came.

Clothes that were worn 'as best' had a lot of wear left in them by the time they'd become unfashionable or looked a little scruffy. My grandfather, as a farmer, tended to work in a three piece suit!
It was a very old three piece suit, darned and patched in places, but it had been a damned good suit at one point 
Another farmer I know always worked in a sports jacket. It is surprising how you could always pick up an old sports jacket with a lot of wear left in it 

[Duncan Head]

We touched on some aspects of this in an old thread at http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1032.0

In particular the article at http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/view/25/26 deals with a find of Coolus helmets that may have been issued to Gallic troops in Roman service.

[bigredbat]

Thanks very much Duncan. I am treading very much in Paul's footsteps on this project- I recall how vast his army was.  :-)

Whilst on the subject of clothing, am I safe to paint legionary tunics in a range of different colours? I have a sense that we have moved away from the old, uniform Romans.

[Duncan Head]

I think opinions still differ on the legionary tunic question. Personally I am still led by Isidore's statement that Roman soldiers "in the days of the consuls" were called russati, Martial saying that red is a colour that pleases soldiers, and Quintilian referring to a soldier in "the terrible dress of the god of war", that is the red in which Mars is depicted. I therefore think that red was certainly the ideal; there remains doubt about how uniform it was in practice.

[Jim Webster]

We touched on some aspects of this in an old thread at http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=1032.0

In particular the article at http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/view/25/26 deals with a find of Coolus helmets that may have been issued to Gallic troops in Roman service.

Not only that but helmets, armour, swords and the like would likely last far longer than clothes. Although if a man managed to acquire better kit he might well wear that

[bigredbat]

Thanks very much Duncan, I'll run with mostly red, then.