Mountain Indians

[Martin Smith]

A gaming friend is putting together a Mountain Indian army (DBx II/2 lists). He needs a little guidance-
" Help! Just about to start on my Mountain Indian army (list 2/2). I saw one post on another blog, suggesting that mountain Indians dressed like Bactrians rather than classical Indians. This could be a showstopper.... my figures are certainly classical I think. Any comments or suggestions either way? (And, anyway.... what would Bactrians look like? ) "

Anyone able to throw some light on this subject, please?

[simonw]

Martin,

I don't think anybody really knows what they looked like. I think your classical Indians with a sprinkling of Hellenistic types and maybe Iranian/Skythian (trousers) types would be fine. Don't be put off. When I game Bactrian Greek/Bactrian Indian armies for my Tactica 2 games in 28mm, I use a mix of Classical Indian and Hellenistic troops. Very spectacular! That's the main thing.

[Mark G]

Xyston differentiate theirs by giving them jackets, which kind of makes sense given he basic assumption that its a bit cooler up in the hills.

[Andreas Johansson]

For the post-Alexandrine period, there might be something to learn from Gandhara art, though a brief look through the WP article didn't seem to show any soldiers.

[Martin Smith]

Thanks for all the replies- I've passed them on.

Anyone have a copy of the Montvert Armies of Bactria book? Any references to the mountain borders with India in it?

[Andreas Johansson]

Anyone have a copy of the Montvert Armies of Bactria book? Any references to the mountain borders with India in it?

Should have thought of that one myself.

Anyway, it logically enough mostly keeps north of the Hindu Kush, but it does have a plate with "Gandharan Warriors". It's reproduced here (probably less than legally, but I don't feel particularly guilty sharing the link as republication of the book doesn't seem exactly likely), along with the decidedly brief comments provided. They hardly look typically "Classical Indian".

[Jim Webster]

Anyone have a copy of the Montvert Armies of Bactria book? Any references to the mountain borders with India in it?

Should have thought of that one myself.

Anyway, it logically enough mostly keeps north of the Hindu Kush, but it does have a plate with "Gandharan Warriors". It's reproduced here (probably less than legally, but I don't feel particularly guilty sharing the link as republication of the book doesn't seem exactly likely), along with the decidedly brief comments provided. They hardly look typically "Classical Indian".

I've been looking for something like that to go with my Kushans

[Martin Smith]

Anyone have a copy of the Montvert Armies of Bactria book? Any references to the mountain borders with India in it?

Should have thought of that one myself.

Anyway, it logically enough mostly keeps north of the Hindu Kush, but it does have a plate with "Gandharan Warriors". It's reproduced here (probably less than legally, but I don't feel particularly guilty sharing the link as republication of the book doesn't seem exactly likely), along with the decidedly brief comments provided. They hardly look typically "Classical Indian".

Thanks Andreas...I'll have to check the link when I'm on 'proper' wifi.
(On dodgy 3G which won't let it through at the moment).

[Andreas Johansson]

One thing to note is that these guys and gals are quite late (early centuries AD) compared to the DBA army list (500-170 BC). Since the Yuezhi/Kushan influences Nikonorov remarks upon in their gear can hardly have been yet present in 170 BC, they may very well have looked more "Classically Indian" in the list period.

I also found a pertinent exchange in the ancmed archives:

Jason, "miros111" <miros@...> wrote:

    > Picked up a few packs of Xyston 'Mountain Indians' and am unsure
    > how to paint them.  IIRC they are the inhabitants of the
    > Paropamisadae/Gandara or Afghan/Pakistani hills in the Successor
    > period. 

Yes.

    > The clothing has elements similar to Classical Indians, as do the
    > bows.  Hoewver they also have beards.  Would they be more Afghans
    > with some Indian culture or something else?
    > Ideas as to skin & clothing colors?

What I said in a dbmlist reply a couple of years ago (this is one of
the questions that should be in a FAQ somewhere):

"I'd do the kilts in the usual Indian white cotton, and probably the
headbands too though those might vary. Jackets I think I'd opt for
off-whites and dull reds (a "Bactrian" range of colours suggested by
the later Khalchayan paintings) brightened up by "Persian" colours
scattered through for better-off individuals - reds, blues, light
greens - and for the trim on the jackets, with saffron yellow and
purple reserved for the elite - commanders, cavalry, etc."

What the Xyston miniatures don't show, but the AMPW drawing they're
based on does, is that the jacket in the main source has the trim
round the upper arms as well as at the edges - see the main
sculptural source at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GreekKing%
28Drawing%29.jpg (though I would not really agree with the "Indo-
Greek" identification here). Other later representations of similar
jackets don't always show this trim, so you don't need to put it on
everyone.

As for skin colour, I imagne they'd look much like modern Afghans or
northern Pakistanis. Culturally Indian with strong Iranian
influences.

cheers,
Duncan

There's also a figure in AMPW (#89) whom Duncan suspects of being a "Mountain Indian".

[Andreas Johansson]

And here you can find what Xyston Miniatures think Mountain Indians looked like. (The range is mostly "normal" Indians - the Mountain types are about halfway down.)

[Erpingham]

Because the URL is split, Duncan's link doesn't resolve properly, so I've inserted the image here

[Martin Smith]

Thanks for the info.

M