Did volcanic eruptions cause the 'Dark Ages', and the subsequent migrations?

[valentinianvictor]

I thought people here may be interested in this link to a book that I found quite interesting without totally agreeing with all the conclusions-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Catastrophe-Investigation-Origins-Modern-World/dp/0099409844/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344353365&sr=1-2

[aligern]

There is an old principle in the study of History that if A occurs before B then it may have caused B, but B is unlikely to have caused A..  This book fails that test completely. The invasions occur before 536 ( largely in 376 and 406), well before the volcano. The next major invasions and Conquests occur 100 years after.  Reading a source of the time such as Procopius, there is really no event that is ascribed to the volcano or to the plague. The plague is described, but for Procopius it has no identifiable consequence. Italy is devastated by war, not by plague. We have plenty of sources for the period shortly after thaplague and they fail to mention crises that might have disease related causes.

Both Byzantium and Sasanian Persia manage a long and destructive war after the plague and before the Arab invasion.  It hardly says that these were two economically ruined and plague devastated states.
Not a good book! It is more out of the stable of Holy Blood, Holy Grail.

Roy

[Jim Webster]

I remember reading that there was climate change (because there always is) and in the 3rd century it did get cooler and wetter in Northern Europe. This was important in the context of what we now consider England, because it meant the wheat could no longer be relied upon in areas where it had been grown successfully for the past two centuries, meaning they switched to barley.

Whilst volcanic eruptions can lead to 'the year without a summer' (and think of this years summer and last years eruptions) the examples I've seen were centuries long events.

Jim

[valentinianvictor]

Agreed that parts of this book miss the mark, but the author actually had an opportunity to link the earlier migrations from the 360's AD onwards to other geological events. What people forget is that from the 360's the European basic countries, extending to north of the Danube as well, were wracked by a series of powerful earthquakes, causing mass devastation, mini tidal waves etc Whether these were linked to the series of volcanic eruptions at the time is of course speculation. They may well have had an impact when the Goth's moved into the Roman Empire during the 370's. A number of contemporary sources tell of these earthquakes and their effects, the early christian writers who mention them put them down, naturally, to the wrath of God. A very good description of one in the 370's is given by Ammianus.

So, my thoughts about the book are an opportunty missed.

[Jim Webster]

Within the Empire with stone built cities and commerce travelling across and around the Med, earthquakes and tidal waves can be a major disaster.
But for the German farmer with his log built house several hundred miles inland, it isn't really going to be an issue.
Indeed some houses seem to have not had foundations as such, logs were laid on the ground to form a rectangle and the one room hut was built up from them. I cannot imagine earthquakes being too much of an issue.

Jim

[aligern]

And after the earthquake of 447 which stimulated a Hun attack the Constantinopolitans rebut their walls and a further outer wall in 60 days so the Huns did not bother going South to attack the city.

Natural disasters fall hardest upon the poor and they occur all the time. The Balkans always has earthquakes, it s in that zone. but earthquakes and plagues before did not bring down the Empire. they might stress it a bit and put up labour costs, but they are background as far as history goes.
In the Black Death (which we know way more about Jim) rural villages were wiped out by the plague. In the Pakistan earthquake rural people seem to suffer just as much.
This book is just short of being an Erich von Danniken explanation of the Fall of the Roman Empire.
I'll say it again, its fundamental event occurs after the main barbarian 'invasions'. It cannot cause them.
If anywhere ought to have been affected by plagues it should be the cities of the East and yet what data there is tends to show their prosperity increasing rather than declining up to the point of the Arab Conquest.
Better Books on the 'Fall' are by Goldsworthy Ward Perkins and Heather.

Roy

[valentinianvictor]

And after the earthquake of 447 which stimulated a Hun attack the Constantinopolitans rebut their walls and a further outer wall in 60 days so the Huns did not bother going South to attack the city.

Natural disasters fall hardest upon the poor and they occur all the time. The Balkans always has earthquakes, it s in that zone. but earthquakes and plagues before did not bring down the Empire. they might stress it a bit and put up labour costs, but they are background as far as history goes.
In the Black Death (which we know way more about Jim) rural villages were wiped out by the plague. In the Pakistan earthquake rural people seem to suffer just as much.
This book is just short of being an Erich von Danniken explanation of the Fall of the Roman Empire.
I'll say it again, its fundamental event occurs after the main barbarian 'invasions'. It cannot cause them.
If anywhere ought to have been affected by plagues it should be the cities of the East and yet what data there is tends to show their prosperity increasing rather than declining up to the point of the Arab Conquest.
Better Books on the 'Fall' are by Goldsworthy Ward Perkins and Heather.

Roy

I agree totally Roy, it was just interesting to see a book looking at other alternatives such as 'climate change' as having its part in the migrations.

I've got all those 'Fall' books by those authors you mentioned plus quite a few others, most look at the military explaination, whilst others look at social/economic reasons etc.

[aligern]

Hi Adrian, when are you off to Constantinople to get pics of those sculptures?? Love to have them here.
And yes, you are of course right climate doe play a part . I'm sure  that we'd find that desertification affects North Africa and rising sea levels may have played a part in the Angles et al moving from the North Sea coast of Germany to the UK.
But when evidence is looked for it always seems contradictory.

Roy

[valentinianvictor]

Hi Adrian, when are you off to Constantinople to get pics of those sculptures?? Love to have them here.
And yes, you are of course right climate doe play a part . I'm sure  that we'd find that desertification affects North Africa and rising sea levels may have played a part in the Angles et al moving from the North Sea coast of Germany to the UK.
But when evidence is looked for it always seems contradictory.

Roy

I am off to Turkey in October but unfortunately I have to cart both my good lady and her 80 year old mother along as well on this trip so we will only be going as far as Ephesus this time. I will be going to Constantinople and Edirne by myself the early part of next year and will let people know what I discover, plus a selection of those fragments of the Column of Theodosius and Column of Arcadius.

[Jim Webster]

Plague that does hit rural villages can hit them very hard because of the naive population. Interestingly I've read various commentators who reckon that urban populations were so slow growing due to disease, poor housing, whatever, that it was rural migration that kept the numbers up but the migrants did suffer comparatively high mortality. (I think this evidence is more 'medieval' because it used parish records etc)

Pakistan suffered badly in the earthquake because they use stone as a building material. They aren't living in single storey log/wattle and daub structures with thatched roof.

I haven't read the book so cannot really comment about it, but I would suggest that climate changes pretty well constantly, and these changes do have serious impacts on agriculture, and thus by definition on the population that can be supported. But frankly I'd be surprised if there was an earthquake major enough to have a noticable effect on the rural populations of the European lands outside the Empire.

Jim
Jim

[aligern]

Adrian, we are expecting at least a Slingshot article from your travels next year!! Do make sure that the sculptures are on display when you visit.  I am chasing off to Sicily in September to hopefully see Piazza Armerina and get a picture of a camel mounted warrior from Palermo!!
Roy

Meanwhile I have this picture of a mediaeval Jim sitting in his wattle and daub hut in Cumbria with rain dripping through the roof telling his good lady that she should stop moaning because ' At least we will be safe here  if there's an earthquake!'.

[Jim Webster]

Strangely enough this is 'the earthquake capital' of the UK. Earth tremor would be more precise, but I can remember four or five noticable tremors in the last fifteen years of so

Jim

[aligern]

Generally after a few pints of Vaux I bet
:-))
Roy

[Andreas Johansson]

Plague that does hit rural villages can hit them very hard because of the naive population. Interestingly I've read various commentators who reckon that urban populations were so slow growing due to disease, poor housing, whatever, that it was rural migration that kept the numbers up but the migrants did suffer comparatively high mortality. (I think this evidence is more 'medieval' because it used parish records etc)

In Scandinavia, at least, cities remained population sinks into the 19th century. Presumably the same was the case already in the Middle Ages, when records are poor (but not in Antiquity - there were no cities then).

[Jim Webster]

Generally after a few pints of Vaux I bet
:-))
Roy

funny you should say that. The pub in the village looks across the road and over the beach, which like the rest of Morecambe bay is pretty much flat 'sand' stretching to the horizon.
In the 18th century a bunch of men made their unsteady way out of the pub and were probably taking a short cut home across the sands.
There was an earth tremor which actually caused a new spring line to appear across the beach.
They headed back to the pub to tell everyone and no one believed them.

Jim