Nanzhao auxiliaries

[Duncan Head]

Was it someone on this list (Nik?) or dbmmlist who was asking about figures for the Nanzhao tribal advance-guard light horse?

I ask because I've just come across the original reference to them in Man Shu:

Wang-chü-tzŭ Man. They live to the west of-the Lan-ts'ang-chiang. They were punished and pacified by Sheng-lo-p'i. They are warlike, nimble, and good at using the lance and the ch'an on horseback. When they ride a horse, they do not use a saddle. They go barefoot. They wear a short jerkin barely protecting the breast and stomach - that is all. Their legs and knees are all bare. On their caps and helmets they stick yak-hair. They gallop and charge as if they were flying. Their womenfolk also can do the like. When Nan-chao and the great generals of the various cities and garrison-towns send out troops, the Wang-chü-tzŭ will act as the vanguard.

I could try to transliterate from the 1961 original's Wade-Giles into pinyin, but it's a bit like hard work.

[nikgaukroger]

Cheers 

What would the "ch'an" be?

[Duncan Head]

The translator doesn't seem to know, and nor do I. A footnote shows the character attached.

The book, by the way, is available as pdf from https://ecommons.cornell.edu/handle/1813/57513 Back when I worked on Nanzhao for TNE and for Slingshot, I only had access to bits of it (I forget why; a partial photocopy from someone?), so I didn't have the scattered descriptions of tribal troops like this.

[nikgaukroger]

Thanks, will add that document to the reading list 

[Swampster]

The military bits are a pretty quick read.

I had a look to see what other Chinese histories are available in translation online, but would appreciate some pointers. I had a look at the History of Jin http://chinesenotes.com/jinshi/jinshi044.html and tried using Google translate which was, umm, interesting. (Not that I expected much).

[Duncan Head]

Thumbing through a dictionary, it looks as if the chan in question may be the character translated as "a shovel, a scoop". Getting a weapon out of that is .... not obvious.

[Andreas Johansson]

Thumbing through a dictionary, it looks as if the chan in question may be the character translated as "a shovel, a scoop". Getting a weapon out of that is .... not obvious.

Any tool with a long shaft has potential as an improvised pole-arm, and sharpened spades were used as weapons in both world wars, so a word for "shovel" coming to mean some sort of weapon - probably axe-like - doesn't seem strange to me.

Cavalry with barge-poles strikes me as unlikelier.

[Duncan Head]

There are various later Chinese "spade" polearms - see http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com/2019/03/telling-apart-chinese-polearms-quick.html - but they are not, as far as I know, attested as early as the Tang, nor are they obvious light cavalry weapons.

[Jim Webster]

There are various later Chinese "spade" polearms - see http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com/2019/03/telling-apart-chinese-polearms-quick.html - but they are not, as far as I know, attested as early as the Tang, nor are they obvious light cavalry weapons.

I'm sure I have seen pictures of Korean cavalry using rice flails on horseback (obviously Japanese invasion era) so the things people use on horseback in that area seem to be varied 

[nikgaukroger]

Thumbing through a dictionary, it looks as if the chan in question may be the character translated as "a shovel, a scoop". Getting a weapon out of that is .... not obvious.

Something vaguely axe like perhaps?

[Duncan Head]

And what should I find but a battle-axe in a Yunnan museum with a blade somewhat reminiscent of the Ming-era "spade" weapons.

It is much too early to be good evidence, though, and continuity may be pushing it.

[Dangun]

For anyone needing an electronic copy of that character its...
鏟
As Duncan said, its shovel.

[Duncan Head]

Thanks, Nick.

[Dangun]

Does anyone know if there has been an English translation of the Nanzhao Dehua Bei stele?

[Duncan Head]

Not that I know of.