Phalanx fallacies - hoplites again

[Jim Webster]

2. They were professional soldiers, which meant their entire career was spent learning how to fight. They would have been better than the average citizen hoplite in a one to one duel (the average citizen hoplite spent most of his time making a living), but not dramatically better as Demaratos affirms.

To what extent did the average citizen hoplite do this rather than spend his life in the gym and symposia while his slaves  made a living for him?

Given the amount of land you needed to be a hoplite I think the assumption is that many of them worked 'with' their slaves

You only needed a wheat yield of eight tons to be a hoplite

[RichT]

You only needed a wheat yield of eight tons to be a hoplite

In what city, at what date, according to who? And what about the definitely non-land-owning hoplites?

I assume though that you are saying eight tons is not very much - I have no feel for how much wheat (or barley) eight tons is - presumably a smallholder rather than a big estate owner?

[Jim Webster]

You only needed a wheat yield of eight tons to be a hoplite

In what city, at what date, according to who? And what about the definitely non-land-owning hoplites?

I assume though that you are saying eight tons is not very much - I have no feel for how much wheat (or barley) eight tons is - presumably a smallholder rather than a big estate owner?

I did a slingshot article about it a while back (Food, land and fertility and the troops you can support.)

Basically the figures are Athenian, but it was very similar to the land holding allowed for Byzantine marines, two and a half times the size of the holding allowed for Thematic infantry and about two thirds what was allowed for Thematic cavalry.
We're perhaps talking of up to 100 acres, it would depend on yields and soil fertility, rainfall etc

[Duncan Head]

I'm guessing Jim may be using the Solonic figures. The middle one of Solon's three property classes, the zeugitai, required land that produced 200-300 medimnoi of grain. A medimnos is a measure of volume, and according to wiki:

It is difficult to ascertain how much a medimnos would have weighed. The weight of a medimnos is currently believed to be 40 kilograms of wheat, or 31 kg of barley.

8000 (200 medimnoi @ 40kg) kilos of wheat is 8.8 tons.

Of course there are some who don't believe that the zeugitai property class has anything to do with the hoplite qualification.

[Erpingham]

8000 (200 medimnoi @ 40kg) kilos of wheat is 8.8 tons.

US tons.  Imperial tons and tonnes are more similar in weight, which maybe what Jim's source was using.

[Jim Webster]

I'm guessing Jim may be using the Solonic figures. The middle one of Solon's three property classes, the zeugitai, required land that produced 200-300 medimnoi of grain. A medimnos is a measure of volume, and according to wiki:

It is difficult to ascertain how much a medimnos would have weighed. The weight of a medimnos is currently believed to be 40 kilograms of wheat, or 31 kg of barley.

8000 (200 medimnoi @ 40kg) kilos of wheat is 8.8 tons.

Of course there are some who don't believe that the zeugitai property class has anything to do with the hoplite qualification.

Yes and I might have tried to fiddle with the bushel weight of wheat to try and get it right for earlier varieties, I can no longer remember 
According to my computer it was 2009 when I wrote the article

[RichT]

Ah thanks - I thought probably Solonic classes. Just need to keep in mind that a statement like 'hoplites needed 8 tons' (or tonnes or whatever) covers a multitude of sins, including
- zeugitae are not necessarily equivalent to hoplite class
- this qualification applies only to Athens (and only a certain time in Athens) - other places and times varied
- this shows who could be conscripted as a hoplite - but not who could serve as a hoplite (volunteers could be all sorts)

Anyway, 2009! I no longer feel bad for not remembering the article...