Who produced the weapons for the Roman army

[Jim Webster]

Don't forget that being an effective killing machine was only one part of the legionary role. They all seemed to be expected to have another craft or skill including construction and different sorts of engineering and were often put to work as a state construction company when not physically defending the empire (or supporting the latest usurper). Archaeologists have found remains of iron smelting in various fortresses, so it is likely that some equipment manufacture / repair was carried out locally. Whether this made them self-sufficient or just resilient if the supply chain - in whatever form that took - failed, I don't know.

I think it's generally accepted that what you might call running repairs were probably done in the unit. Mind you, given that in 'peace time' units could be spread over half a province in various places doing various jobs, if you break something, it might be months before you get back to the Legionary barracks so it'll be a visit to the local smith/leather worker.

I suspect that if the legion was gathered into one place for pay parade or similar you'd probably find that even if they had roughly the same helmet, you'd see a lot of different thicknesses and lengths of chin straps, and probably with fittings re-riveted by local smiths because it broke when he was out on detached duty somewhere

[Imperial Dave]

running repairs will out of necessity have to happen on campaign and as stated a lot of legionaries had a non fighting skill to compliment their training. I just wonder how much adherence to standards would be enforced by NCOs and officers especially on campaign

[Jim Webster]

running repairs will out of necessity have to happen on campaign and as stated a lot of legionaries had a non fighting skill to compliment their training. I just wonder how much adherence to standards would be enforced by NCOs and officers especially on campaign

I would ask how much adherence to standards there would be at any time?
Why should there be?
We have a cultural construct that soldiers are uniformly equipped 'automatons' which arrived with the wars of the Age of Reason
Had we been having this discussion in 1520 or 1620 we would not have turned a hair if we had pikemen in our unit with six different models of breast plate, or our horse had three or four totally different helmet types.
I suspect there would have to be a minimum standard, but I suspect it could be entirely possible that a recruit went into action wearing the padded under armour because his mail or whatever still hadn't been made ready yet.
Also because you fight the same way i cannot imagine they would allow somebody to come in with a sword with a blade a foot longer than his mates (unless he was an officer) but we know that individuals could have individual levels of decoration they paid for themselves. Also I cannot imagine there being a problem if in a cohort you had five somewhat different patterns of Gladius. How will that effect military efficiency?

[Imperial Dave]

running repairs will out of necessity have to happen on campaign and as stated a lot of legionaries had a non fighting skill to compliment their training. I just wonder how much adherence to standards would be enforced by NCOs and officers especially on campaign

I would ask how much adherence to standards there would be at any time?
Why should there be?
We have a cultural construct that soldiers are uniformly equipped 'automatons' which arrived with the wars of the Age of Reason
Had we been having this discussion in 1520 or 1620 we would not have turned a hair if we had pikemen in our unit with six different models of breast plate, or our horse had three or four totally different helmet types.
I suspect there would have to be a minimum standard, but I suspect it could be entirely possible that a recruit went into action wearing the padded under armour because his mail or whatever still hadn't been made ready yet.
Also because you fight the same way i cannot imagine they would allow somebody to come in with a sword with a blade a foot longer than his mates (unless he was an officer) but we know that individuals could have individual levels of decoration they paid for themselves. Also I cannot imagine there being a problem if in a cohort you had five somewhat different patterns of Gladius. How will that effect military efficiency?

I agree Jim. We must try to avoid viewing the past through the spectacles of our own modern standards. Even in modern times, how often have you seen olive body armour over choc chip camo fatigues in Iraq/Afganistan?

[Mick Hession]

I remember a photo of the first post-Saddam military police unit passing out, all equipped by the American army. A mix of black and brown belts, blue and green blouses and trousers, with berets of varying colours with and without unit badges. The only uniform feature was the black moustache sported by every man. I can't imagine ancient armies being much more uniform.

Cheers
Mick

[Imperial Dave]

Border/limitanei units would be even more heterogeneous!

[Jim Webster]

Border/limitanei units would be even more heterogeneous!

In the later empire you get more centralised supply, but how well that worked on the borders is moot. Firstly one assumes the field armies would get first pick of what was there
Also when it came to clothing etc, the military supply system has always relied on 'three sizes fit all' and getting soldiers (or their wives, mothers or girlfriends) to make it fit better.
One could assume that on the borders there would be people associated with the unit (be the soldiers with the knack, wives or whatever) who would knock up trousers and tunic of approximately the right colour rather than wait for the next consignment to come along. After all, somebody had to be the one who would sew on the embroidered panels after taking them off the last garment

[Erpingham]

Long ago, I read an article on Roman legions which compared their uniformity with that of school children in their uniforms.  At a distance they looked like they were dressed the same but as you got closer you saw some had new uniforms, some hand-me-downs.  Styles and shades were slightly different, shoes were different, different classes had developed styles of tie tying and so on.  A corrective to the Guards on parade image.

[Andreas Johansson]

In Early Modern Europe, soldiers were often issued so and so many ells of cloth, which they were supposed to turn into clothes themselves, or get a tailor/wife/whatever to do it for them. Presumably this resulted in a lot more uniformity of colours than of cut.

But do we know how the supply of clothes to legionaries at any period was supposed to work even in theory?

[Duncan Head]

But do we know how the supply of clothes to legionaries at any period was supposed to work even in theory?

We have a papyrus from the "receivers of public garments" recording delivery of cloaks and tunics from weavers in Egypt to soldiers in Judaea, dated AD128, and  another for soldiers in Cappadocia iin 138; there's a document from a cohort in Moesia sending men abroad, probably to Gaul, to obtain clothing; a plaque with an inscription from a vexillation of I Adiutrix to a clothes-dealer doing business for them in (probably) Gaul... it looks like a system of taxation in kind, at least in the East, supplemented by individual units working with private contractors. These references from essays in Wearing the Cloak.

[Imperial Dave]

What about socks...? as in those posted to Northern Britain.....surely non standard issue 

[DougM]

What about socks...? as in those posted to Northern Britain.....surely non standard issue 

And thus traditional English dress of socks and sandals.

[Imperial Dave]

What about socks...? as in those posted to Northern Britain.....surely non standard issue 

And thus traditional English dress of socks and sandals.

yea gods...the shame

[Duncan Head]

What about socks...? as in those posted to Northern Britain.....surely non standard issue 

http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DLink2/4DACTION/WebRequestQuery?searchTerm=346&searchType=number&searchField=TVII

[Imperial Dave]

that was the reference I was referring to Duncan....when in Britain...send socks and underpants