Ptolemaic Immo. Legions

[shaun holdsworth]

Hi All next question - what is the best way figure wise to represent Imitation legion/Romanized infantry -as Romans but with Greek helmets or as  Thureophoroi with a good sword and a can do attitude 

[Jim Webster]

Hi All next question - what is the best way figure wise to represent Imitation legion/Romanized infantry -as Romans but with Greek helmets or as  Thureophoroi with a good sword and a can do attitude

For the period of about 50BC I use the Irregular Miniatures figure RC109 Legionary in 'Eastern' helmet, i.e. imitation Legionary

He's pretty much the same as the Marian legionary, same shield etc, but has a 'Greek' helmet

[stevenneate]

I've used a number of Carthaginian veteran figures and mixed them up with some Marian Romans and then fleshed them out with anything with a scutum and mail coat. Fills out the ranks of my Armenians and Herodian Judaeans.  They never win, but they look damn stylish as they march to their doom....

[Duncan Head]

If the Kasr el-Harit scutum is actually Ptolemaic - which it may very well be - then it suggests that they were equipped pretty close to the Roman model, though without the iron boss-plate on the shield that you can see on at least some real Roman shields, for instance on the Alter of Domitius Ahenobarbus. Similarly the Sokopnaiou Nesos sword seems to be a Roman-style sword made in Egypt, although the date of the sword is not entirely clear - it may be too late to be Ptolemaic.

[shaun holdsworth]

I remember an article in SS I think about late Ptolemaic inf. seamed to show thureophoroi with 2toned shields , but thats all I recall.

[Duncan Head]

That would be based on the Sidon paintings. Nick Sekunda argued (here and here) that they are the grave monuments of "Romanised" Ptolemaic infantry; but they might simply be "ordinary" mercenary thureophoroi - the names identify most if not all as Anatolians.

Most of them are unarmoured; one alone has a mailshirt, though a short one without shoulder-pieces not the usual Roman legionary style, and he's the guy I identified in AMPW as a thorakites.

Sekunda thinks that the "two-tone" shields represent shading on all-white shields.

[shaun holdsworth]

Woo £95 for basically an Osprey, mind you I got the Seleucid a couple years ago for a bit less and defo paid a lot less for your book (AMPW) a gold mine !

[Jim Webster]

Woo £95 for basically an Osprey, mind you I got the Seleucid a couple years ago for a bit less and defo paid a lot less for your book (AMPW) a gold mine !

I picked them up when they were first published (He comments smugly)

But what intrigues me is that his more academic publication (fewer pretty pictures) is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/8389786834/   and £17 second hand 

[Imperial Dave]

me too Jim 

[Jim Webster]

me too Jim 

there's times when I suspect our average membership is so old, we should just have looked out of the window and watched them march past 

[Imperial Dave]

I cant believe the Montverts are that old but hey ho 

[nikgaukroger]

Woo £95 for basically an Osprey, mind you I got the Seleucid a couple years ago for a bit less and defo paid a lot less for your book (AMPW) a gold mine !

I picked them up when they were first published (He comments smugly)

But what intrigues me is that his more academic publication (fewer pretty pictures) is

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/8389786834/   and £17 second hand 

Got the Montverts back then as well - never found the arguments for widespread Romanisation to be convincing though. Anyone know how much extra material the more academic book has?

[Duncan Head]

Anyone know how much extra material the more academic book has?

Not much. He does set out the inscriptional evidence at greater length, but it's not a huge advance on the Montverts.

[nikgaukroger]

Thanks.

[Jim Webster]

Thanks.

In fact I felt that it wasn't as well argued as in the Montverts