Long camel swords

[Erpingham]

This isn't strictly army research, as I have no intention to use it to raise forces.  But, given it is "The Year of the Camelid", others might.

Long ago, I remember my WRG books had images of Hellenistic camel riders with giant swords. I would be sceptical about these except that Duncan, IIRC, quoted the original evidence. Yet I couldn't help but wonder about them. I presume their form is dictated by engaging infantry who might attack the camel, rather than camel v camel action.  Were they fully sharp swords or simply sharp at the cutting end? Do we have any surviving examples?

[Imperial Dave]

did camels carry swords and if so was it only the long ones?

[Andreas Johansson]

As you may recall, we had a longish discussion of long camel swords in an old thread: this post by your very self may be a good starting point.

[Erpingham]

As you may recall, we had a longish discussion of long camel swords in an old thread: this post by your very self may be a good starting point.

Indeed, I remember it well.  It was Rich who produced the "four cubit sword" reference (come back, Rich, the forum needs you  ). The bit about TE Lawrence (Patrick was a great fan of TE Lawrence).  However, we did not entirely reach a conclusion - it shaped my understanding but didn't completely satisfy my curiosity. Hence the opportunistic jump on to the "Year of the Camelid" bandwagon and the artefactual evidence angle

[Keraunos]

The 1.4 to 1.6 meter long Koncerz sword carried as a secondary weapon by Polish Winged Hussars came to mind, but I see that this is similar to the Western 'estoc', so you have floated that idea before me.  The point of these weapons was the point, not slashing about and risking cutting off the head of your horse (for which read camel) before doing damage to the enemy.

[Erpingham]

Coincidentally, I've been reading about Polish winged hussars recently and about rapier development, so a long stabbing sword was in my mind.  It does depend on what we think the sword was for - stabbing individuals,especially cavalry, or swatting infantry?

[DBS]

There have been finds of very long Parthian/Sasanian swords; I remember seeing a photo of an Iraqi or Iranian teenaged boy holding a very long, rather rapier like, specimen at a dig. I always thought it looked a tad unsuited for a cataphract, let alone a horse archer.  Perhaps a long pokey weapon for a cameleer, as noted above.

Not entirely clear why poke with a long sword, rather than a cheaper spear, other than prestige and perhaps less likely to break or get too embedded in an enemy?

[Erpingham]

Not entirely clear why poke with a long sword, rather than a cheaper spear, other than prestige and perhaps less likely to break or get too embedded in an enemy?

Well, in terms of the Renaissance estocs and Polish equivalents, you are looking at something very sharp and stiff. So I think you have the answer - something robust that will punch through armour without breaking or bending. I suspect mail and scale armour would be more vulnerable than the plate armours an estoc was for. Do we know more about the properties of these long Partian/Sassanian swords?

[tadamson]

The evidece for camel swords is irritatingly sparse...

Later (7thC on) evidence for long cavalry swords (used with a smallish round shield as an alternative to a two handed long spear/lance) is plentiful but they are primaraly single edge, slightly curved, with a forwrd point.